One brilliant man goes public with his science findings on dust collection and it changes everyone’s view on what we should do to keep or shops and I suppose ourselves clean and clear of dust. I love the fact that Mr. Pentz has designed and shared his knowledge for all to see and use. I however think it has turned to many people into self professed experts on dust collection. For Gods sake people are butchering their cabinet saws to match to calculated air flow. I like the design of clearvue cyclones. I am going to purchase one. What I need to know is are there any folks out there with this system that still use their older system 4” pipe??what were your performance opinions of your system using 4” pipe with a CV1800 system. I absolutely believe there are people doing it but are to timid to post that the system works. I recently saw two cyclones for sale because they only use their little Festool vacs now. Will I get Good but not perfect dust collection using 4" pipe? I just don't have it in me to tear my shop apart.
4" pipe
- Thread starter dustyone
- Start date
I suppose I would fall into the "self professed experts on dust collection" so you don't have to read any further if you don't want. 
If you feel that 4" pipes are good enough then why are you looking to upgrade the DC you have? Since the 4" pipe is the limitation of the amount of air that can flow through it then what would be the reason to leave it if you do buy a CV1800? I see it as changing a carb over from a 2 barrel to a pair of 4 barrel carbs and still pulling all the air through the original 2 barrel air filter intake hole. It chokes the airflow off and I believe there may not be enough flow for the cyclone to function properly to separate the dust. My "degree in dust collection" doesn't extend that far to know for sure.
If you want to suck that DQ milkshake through a 1/8" diameter straw then go for it. It's your system and you need to decide what meets your needs. I'll grab the big straw and let the brain freeze be my restriction.
Pete
Something to keep in mind with respect to what the manufactures supply for ports. Much of the flow data for how many CFM's are needed at a machine are based on decades old standards that were in place before the understanding of how bad the fine dust is and they were only trying to get rid of the bigger, easily visible dust. Manufacturers made them to suit. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be modified to make them work better. Again it is up to you to decide what you want to do.
If you feel that 4" pipes are good enough then why are you looking to upgrade the DC you have? Since the 4" pipe is the limitation of the amount of air that can flow through it then what would be the reason to leave it if you do buy a CV1800? I see it as changing a carb over from a 2 barrel to a pair of 4 barrel carbs and still pulling all the air through the original 2 barrel air filter intake hole. It chokes the airflow off and I believe there may not be enough flow for the cyclone to function properly to separate the dust. My "degree in dust collection" doesn't extend that far to know for sure.
If you want to suck that DQ milkshake through a 1/8" diameter straw then go for it. It's your system and you need to decide what meets your needs. I'll grab the big straw and let the brain freeze be my restriction.
Pete
Something to keep in mind with respect to what the manufactures supply for ports. Much of the flow data for how many CFM's are needed at a machine are based on decades old standards that were in place before the understanding of how bad the fine dust is and they were only trying to get rid of the bigger, easily visible dust. Manufacturers made them to suit. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be modified to make them work better. Again it is up to you to decide what you want to do.
dustyone I have a suggestion for you to entertain. Here is an inexpensive particle counter you can buy. Don't put it directly into a dust stream, just sit it beside where you are working about head high. Make a bunch of cuts on some of your machines with your existing DC that you'll be able to replicate after you get the new CV-1800. Record the particle counts for the different machines. When you get the CV do them again and see how much/if the counts improve. If you find the numbers have been reduced to levels you feel are good you can run with the existing 4" pipes. If there isn't much of a change if any then you can consider replacing the pipes in your system for larger.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...+Dust+Sensor+TFT+LCD+Display+Monitor&_sacat=0
Pete
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...+Dust+Sensor+TFT+LCD+Display+Monitor&_sacat=0
Pete
Thank you Pete for the suggestions. My resistance to larger piping is basically financial reasons. I the last 6 months I have made so pricey purchases for my shop. A 20" planer, 24" drum sander and just two weeks ago a new Powermatic 8" jointer. All replaced existing equipment. None of this new equipment has dust ports close to the recommended duct size and all 3 of these manufacturers also sell dust collectors. I made our own 4" blast gates and have a neat clean installation of piping. I absolutely will not cut into my restored PM66. I don't like "redo's" so I had hoped to get along on the 4" configuration as long as I could.
I understand the cost of stuff for the shop especially the piping. The 8" PVC I need for my CV-Max is $16Can to $24Can per foot in this area and the metal not much better. Could you make a removable extension to the motor cover to put the pipe through if you needed to? Then it can revert back to original configuration at any time. I'd love to get a 20" planer and 8" jointer but I'll have to be content with the 12"/6" I have.
Pete
Pete
Dustyone: You did not indicate the model for your planer or drum sander, but you should be able to increase the size of the port on your 8" Powermatic jointer and on your restored PM66 table saw without making any permanent modifications to either machine. All models of Powermatic 8" jointers (60C, 60HH, PJ-882C or PJ-882HH) have a plastic 4" dust port that is screwed to the base cabinet at the lower end of their dust chutes. I would make a plywood replacement panel with a 6: port using 1/2 of a 6" PVC coupler glued into the plywood for a port. Similarly, the large dust door on the front of the PM66 tablesaw could easily be removed and a plywood/6" port put in its place without damage to your machines. 6: duct can support much better airflow than the stock 4" ports (28.27 sq inch area cross section for 6" versus 12.5 sq in for 4"). It is worth the effort, believe me.