Best Caulking

L

landscapingmule

New member
Does anyone have suggestions on what brand name caulking works best around the cyclones transition and intake?

I like what Ed used on the main cyclone, it was a bit firmer than most. If I knew what that was I'd use it!

Thanks,

Don
 
Don,
We use DAP brand Alex Plus crystal clear caulk with silicone.

Ed
 
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Geocel Pro flex. Built my cyclone with material from a sheet metal fabrication shop. They swear by Pro flex for sheet metal caulking.

Pdf file here, may need to use IE, can't d/l with Firefox.
Pro flex pdf
 
Dap Caulk

Dap Caulk

Ed,

Just a point of clarification. I was down at my not so local Agent Orange today, and they had two Dap clear caulks, neither of which exactly matched the one you specified earlier.

One was Dap Alex Plus Clear, comes out white and dries to clear, goes for about $2 a tube. I didn't copy down this one's UPC.

The other was Dap Flexible Clear Sealant, Crystal Clear. Is clear even uncured. But it doesn't say "Alex Plus" anywhere on the tube that I could find. About $5.50 a tube. UPC on the this tube is 070798 183766.

I ended up with the higher priced spread, but am just curious which you use. Can send you a photo of the one I got, if you like.

Thanks

DWD
 
Dap Caulk

Dap Caulk

Thanks, Bob,

I think I saw that one at Amazon. They list it as #18401, which I take it is the last 5 digits of the UPC not including that little one on the end. Doesn't appear Amazon stocks it directly, rather makes it available from partners, which include Polstein's and True Value, at somewhere between $2.50 and $3 per tube, plus about double that for shipping.

The two I saw at HD, then, would equate to numbers as shown on Amazon as 18376 and either 18156 or 18071.

Amazing how many different caulks there are. Just from Dap alone there were 238 results to a search query of "dap caulk".

Though more expensive per tube, probably not enough difference between what I have, the 18376, and the 18401 to warrant the gas to return it to HD, then pay the freight to get the exact match through Amazon. I'll leave it as an "open item" and report in some flavor as I complete the cyclone build. I don't have a True Value anywhere in the area, and even my local Ace isn't an Ace anymore, making my nearest of that brand about 35 miles away.

From your help, for what its worth, I also found the 18401 at Do It Best's online site, but sold in 12 packs only. Thus anyone with one of those nearby might be able to find it in stock and sold by the tube.

Regards,

DWD

PS: I tried both of my local Do It Best franchisees, neither carried it in stock and were unwilling to order unless I agreed to take the entire 12 pack.

PPS: I used the 18376 Dap caulk during reassembly of the cyclone central tube to the barrel's MDF top (I'd removed it for painting) and for assembly of the transition. This caulk is solvent base, and comes out of the tube like stiff peanut butter. It is not all that easy to work, not the "smooth and creamy" description given the recommended Alex Plus latex caulk. But it does come out of the tube crystal clear. My efforts on the cyclone tube were not very good as I had trouble getting the stuff to flow into the space between the pieces, even after preapplying a good amount to the MDF prior to assembly. There are lots of bubbles in the joint, though I think I got a decent seal. Just doesn't look all that great, and not nearly as good as the factory seal was. The transition, however, seems to have come out OK as, knowing the difficulties I was going to have, I first taped up around the joints, then "overshot" the caulk into the recesses, counting on ooze to remove bubbles. If you use this stuff, have plenty of rags or paper towels at the ready, plus a dish of mineral spirits.
 
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Wonders Never Cease!

Wonders Never Cease!

Was wandering through the local Wal Mart today, three guesses what I found: DAP Alex Plus Crystal Clear, #18401. $2.34 per tube.

Of course after I struggled through a tube of that solvent based peanut butter stuff.

Regards

DWD
 

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Another caulking alternative

Another caulking alternative

I saw this thread and wanted to offer a comment about Lexan (available in clear) as an adhesive caulk. The DAP Alex Plus is clearly working well for Clear Vue, and in my experience it's a caulk that will adhere better than some to surfaces that aren't real clean. But for some situations you might perhaps encounter, even in a project like ducting, Lexan is something else. I've successfully caulked concrete to asphalt with that stuff. It's much less convenient to use than the Alex Plus, since you have to smooth it with thinner, but it bonds really well to many surfaces and for some projects where I want to be really sure of a seal, that's what I use.

I hope this doesn't sound like some spam ad jive; it's just that I was a high-end professional painter for 20 years, and I've worked with a lot of different caulks.
 
"Lexan" Caulk?

"Lexan" Caulk?

David,

I'm confused again. Thought "Lexan" was GE Plastics' trade name for their polycarbonate products. Could you be a bit more specific, perhaps manufacturer name and UPC number for the product?

Thanks,
DWD
 
Thanks

Thanks

David,

Thanks!

Wow! $8 a tube! But if it works, worth every penny.

Wondering, in your experience with the stuff, how well it works on polycarb, if it can be viewed as a decent substitute for a solvent type glue so long as one isn't looking for stupendous strength of the joint? What I'm thinking is, on my dust bin version 2 (see gallery) it might be best to adhere corner pieces that aren't preglued. Solvent would work reasonably well for the leg to face sheet portion, but would be awful for the leg that butts against the panels' internal extrusions. For that would need either some sort of caulk or thick bodied adhesive, and Lexel might be a decent selection. Wha'cha think?

Regards,
DWD
 
I don't have personal experience using it on polycarbonate, but the brochure (http://www.sashcosealants.com/Content/Files/lexel_brochure.pdf) shows that it adheres especially well to polycarbonate. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to wipe the surfaces down with alcohol first, but that might be overkill with Lexel. It also seems to me that it might be superior over time as it would maintain a seal even if those corner protectors managed to get cracked.

That's a heck of a dust bin! I'm going to check out your installation carefully; your extensive documentation looks like an great resource. My cyclone is due to arrive tomorrow, and looking at your dust bin made me realize that the width of some of the more usual cans or barrels would complicate my installation.

Lexel is indeed expensive, so I only use it where it's really needed (Alex Plus has been one staple for more routine applications, though I usually prefer Polyseamseal clear for general use). But Lexel is so superior to silicone, for example. Silicone caulk advertising has been so successful that the average Joe thinks it's the best for everything. In my experience, it's only appropriate for very specific applications, such as glass-to-glass or glass-to-metal in shower surrounds and the like, and only if the surfaces are very clean. I've had to replace a great deal of failed silicone caulking, no doubt applied by people who thought they were using the best thing they could.

-david
 
Thanks again

Thanks again

David,

Saw the brochure, didn't know if they were "embellishing" or not on the polycarb. So I asked. If you don't enter, you can't win.

Not relying on the outside corner protectors to seal, they're there just for trim asthetics. With the open center of the Gallina sheets, trying to seal via the outside sheet seems a fool's mission (and I was just the fool to try it).

If you can stand a 24" diameter barrel, then your options for a dust bin are almost limitless. Nearly any 55 gal. drum will do. I was going to use the fiber one that came with the old Delta but found it stuck out too far in the garage, next to my red toy, so needed something smaller in that dimension. Could stand length along the wall of 24" or even more (but not all that much more as the filters are a half foot or so away).

So if you're limited like I was to 18" in one dimension, then your options aren't all that pretty. There are some smaller bins that will fit, but then the capacity's down as they're generally round and might even be shorter.

Will note that making your own should probably be almost the option of last resort. The Gallina panels aren't inexpensive, and then you'll probably have to tack shipping onto that (though Bill at LowCountry Storm Panels only charges what it costs him). If you don't count the top piece I'm using, some 1/4" polycarb that someone gave me as scrap years ago, and give up on using the Gallina material for the bottom, you can get the four sides out of one 4x6 sheet of the material (my dimensions, outside, are 24 x 18 x 29.5 tall), which will run you $80 plus shipping unless or until Bill has to go up on his prices. BTW, Bill lives in the development right outside of mine, so I have dealt with him in person. The pine 2x4s were dirt cheap. But the casters I used aren't, about $15, $16 a pop. But they are nice two way locking. Woodcraft.

So, bottom line is obviously the bottom line. By the time you're done, and if you can get away with cheap casters, you've still got $100 or more in the custom bin. And you can get some fancy barrels for that. But apparently not in the size I desired. What can I say except it smacks of having more money than brains? And given the market lately, that means not much of either.

As you wander around the photos I took, you'll also note I stumbled upon the Polyseamseal, basically because I could get it in a squeeze tube. It has been easy to use and has done the jobs I've put to it so far. Also got a gun tube of the Alex Plus but haven't opened it yet. The other Dap stuff I tried, a solvent base, was utter misery to use. Way too thick.

Also have to admit I've screwed up my share of tub and shower caulking jobs. I have horrible luck with water based. Even after letting it dry for two weeks, I find most of it still is susceptible to water softening it or even washing it away. So I usually reach for a solvent based. Will have to try the Lexel or their white mildew resistant version next time I must.

Regards,
DWD
 
caulk talk

caulk talk

I've done a ton of caulking; I've probably personally gone through hundreds of cases of caulking, so it's pretty hard-wired with me at this point, and I normally do very tidy caulking.
Like other solvent-type caulks, Lexel is not the easiest to work with, and you may find it more similar to the DAP solvent caulk work with than you'd like. To smooth it, I suggest wearing disposable nitrile gloves and wetting your finger tip with either soapy water as they recommend or paint thinner, which has how I've usually done it. If you need to tool it (or pick up excess), a flexible-blade putty knife dipped in the lubricant (soapy water or thinner) works well.
With any caulk, the main trick is to not apply too much. This is doubly true with something like Lexel, because you want to do as little smoothing or tooling as possible. Because it's so sticky, you can produce a mess in a hurry if you've got a lot of excess to remove. If you end up with not enough in a seam, it's easy enough to add a little more, or even let it cure and do a second pass.

I'm inclined to take their brochure adhesion results as genuine, just because Lexel has the most tenacious adhesion of any "adhesive" caulk I've ever used. Polyseamseal, for instance, has very decent adhesion to a variety of substrates, but Lexel is in quite another category.

It would be best in my installation if the debris bin were under 22" wide; I don't know yet how much that limits me.
 
Working caulk

Working caulk

That's what I usually do, keep a small container of the particular solvent, either water or mineral spirits, plus a bunch of rags within reach. I also keep a collection of those fake credit cards places like AAA and AmEx send with their offers to use for tooling. If the standard, rounded corner isn't suitable, they're easy enough to cut to the desired bead.

But it still is a messy business and I find as uncoordinated as I am I more often than not must tape first. Also learned over the years to "push" the bead, and leave a half inch or so gap every so often for the inevitable excess.

The problem I had with the solvent Dap caulk was that I was trying to reseal the inner cylinder to the MDF top after having cut and removed CV's caulk, so I could paint the MDF. I applied a bead to both the MDF and cylinder prior to assy, to ensure coverage. But the stuff was so stiff that instead of merging together, it was like a taffy pull, and the whole process simply introduced a ton of bubbles. So, the combination of wrong stuff plus lack of skill produced less than desirable results.

I had better results with the transition assy, taping first, then almost filling the cavities with caulk, then inserting the mating pieces. But you'll also note that the curved plastic pieces, specifically the smaller, inside piece, didn't stick very well. This caulk wasn't a very good adhesive for PTEG, apparently.

Thought I did a decent job caulking the second version of the bin, if I do say so myself. Used the Polyseamseal and it was very easy to squirt then tool with the credit card. Corners first then pushing into the corners from the rest of the seam. Didn't use tape and was still pleased with the result. Almost looks like I knew what I was doing.

From what may be faulty memory, I think there were some decent plastic or fiber barrels that could be had in the 22" diameter range, and 35 gal or larger. I looked at the "usual suspects" for sites, entering both "plastic drum" and "fiber drum" into google.

McMaster might also have something suitable and I'd look there as well. A lot of times its the same stuff, so you're left with price comparisons, though McMaster doesn't give up brand names, models or UPC type info very often.

Its been said before but just for completeness, others have also suggested asking local car dealers / detailers / washes or other local industries what they might have for barrels or drums that they'd be willing to let you have for free or a nominal sum. I struck out here but you may have better luck. Just be aware of what came in it. If a really nasty chemical, keep looking. But if soap for the car wash or talc, flour, or anything benign, snatch it up.

Which means, if the business has to pay someone to haul off empty barrels, might be a pocket change generating sideline: take the barrels off their hands for free, rinse them out, sell them for, oh, $25 plus shipping to other CV installers! Probably dreaming again.

Regards,
DWD
 
Gallina Panels

Gallina Panels

'Fore I forget: One other thing to be aware of regarding the Gallina panels. The inner and outer faces (and they are "handed", the outer contains UV protection, though it probably doesn't matter in this application) are thin. I've attached the Fein shop vac directly to the skin and it withstood it. But it may be susceptible to puncture if you're regularly tossing large chunks of 2x4 or the like into the system. Planer, lathe, router chips should be OK as they're not massive enough to pick up a lot of kinetic energy as they fall.

For me the material is perfect. It is light, stiff (though not as stiff as 3/4 ply), strong. But depending on use, it might not be ideal for some.

Regards,
DWD
 
talkin' trash... cans

talkin' trash... cans

Looking at McMaster-Carr I see 55 gal. fiber barrels that are 22 3/8" dia., which upon measuring my space again I could probably live with, though the 41 gal (20 7/8" dia.) or even the 30 gal. (19 3/8" dia.) would give me more slack and might be just fine, capacity wise. I currently only have a Fein Turbo III, running it now without a bag, and usually don't have to empty it more than once a week, and often less than that. The max weight capacities given for the different drum sizes also suggest that the 41 & 30 gal. sizes might be a bit more robust than the cheapest 55 gal.

Thread drift! :eek:

-david
 
Is there any reason NOT to use the same stuff, but in the "Clear" variety instead of "Crystal Clear". The Clear kind is everywhere, but I can't find the Crystal Clear anywhere. I can't imagine there's a functional difference...
 
Clear should be fine

Clear should be fine

Sub, I imagine you'll be fine with "Clear" vs. Crystal Clear". I haven't checked, but the name may well have been changed by the manufacturer since the mentions in this thread happened. It's been a while!
 
I've actually seen it recently at Wal-Mart and LOWE's ... used to be hard to come by, and yes, I do think the CRYSTAL CLEAR has a different (better) adhesive quality, but I can't prove it, so don't ask.
 
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