Building a noise-blocking closet
- Thread starter Jameel Abraham
- Start date
DC closet design for fire protection and monitoring
DC closet design for fire protection and monitoring
Hello Jameel,
When considering DC closet design, I would like to hear your, and anyone's, comments on the need to:
- put any extra fire protection material above the motor?
- in the closet, have a way to monitor for overheating, via a smoke detector, or some other device?
Thanks for sharing your project.
RJ
DC closet design for fire protection and monitoring
Hello Jameel,
When considering DC closet design, I would like to hear your, and anyone's, comments on the need to:
- put any extra fire protection material above the motor?
- in the closet, have a way to monitor for overheating, via a smoke detector, or some other device?
Thanks for sharing your project.
RJ
RJ,
Well, I might as well take a stab at this one. But please bear in mind this is but a freely offered opinion. Not looking to get my butt sued if something proves me wrong.
The way I look at it is that whether or not the machine's in a closet shouldn't impact its susceptibility to creating a hazard, providing the closet's like Jameel's or others where the exhaust air from the filters dumps into the closet then returns to the shop (or exits another way, with shop makeup air also supplied elsewhere). The air flow through the system thus is constantly cooling and changing the air mass within the closet.
Certainly one must observe the usual, keep insulation and other loose and easy to ignite stuff clear of the motor. But that, too, applies irrespective of whether or not its in a closet.
Thus, IMHO, the only difference is whether or not one would notice a problem in what I think would be a very low probability situation. There's no harm putting a smoke detector in the closet if it makes you feel better, and they're not all that expensive.
And finally, if the motor does get hot, it does have thermal protection, which if memory serves is well below that required to ignite usual construction materials like wood and drywall. Memory's a little hazy but I think in a discussion of Woodman's cabinet Matt mentioned it will kick the machine off at 100 or 120 F, somewhere in that ballpark.
Bottom line, I think is that while it is impossible to say with absolute certainty nothing will happen, I'd put odds on it somewhere around me hitting the lottery. But if doing something will help you sleep better, have at it.
Regards,
DWD
Well, I might as well take a stab at this one. But please bear in mind this is but a freely offered opinion. Not looking to get my butt sued if something proves me wrong.
The way I look at it is that whether or not the machine's in a closet shouldn't impact its susceptibility to creating a hazard, providing the closet's like Jameel's or others where the exhaust air from the filters dumps into the closet then returns to the shop (or exits another way, with shop makeup air also supplied elsewhere). The air flow through the system thus is constantly cooling and changing the air mass within the closet.
Certainly one must observe the usual, keep insulation and other loose and easy to ignite stuff clear of the motor. But that, too, applies irrespective of whether or not its in a closet.
Thus, IMHO, the only difference is whether or not one would notice a problem in what I think would be a very low probability situation. There's no harm putting a smoke detector in the closet if it makes you feel better, and they're not all that expensive.
And finally, if the motor does get hot, it does have thermal protection, which if memory serves is well below that required to ignite usual construction materials like wood and drywall. Memory's a little hazy but I think in a discussion of Woodman's cabinet Matt mentioned it will kick the machine off at 100 or 120 F, somewhere in that ballpark.
Bottom line, I think is that while it is impossible to say with absolute certainty nothing will happen, I'd put odds on it somewhere around me hitting the lottery. But if doing something will help you sleep better, have at it.
Regards,
DWD
I'm keeping the door/wall shut with two toggle clamps. I was going to buy a couple trunk latches, but they are not adjustable. The toggles were more money, like triple, but I can adjust the closing pressure for a perfect seal.
View attachment 61[/QUOTE]
Hi Jameel, where did you find those toggle clamps? I've looked at Home Depot, Rona, Lee Valley, Princess Auto, they must be somewhere here in Canada.
View attachment 61[/QUOTE]
Hi Jameel, where did you find those toggle clamps? I've looked at Home Depot, Rona, Lee Valley, Princess Auto, they must be somewhere here in Canada.
PeterOlsson
New member
This was really great info, but some related questions...i will build my closet this week.
My shop is in a freestanding steel building, i dont want to hang the collector against the red iron studs as im concerned it will vibrate the whole building in that case. Figured free standing closet out of 2x4 might be a good way to go.
a friend also noted to reduce the noice from the collector that might follow the studs into the concrete slab, put a thick rubbermat in betweenthe closet walls and the slab, something like a stable mat should work great. Should i just leave the closet to standfreely on top of this and not nail it into the slab in that case? Worried the closet might move unless i secure it, but maybe im just overthinking it.
or should i use rubber or other material to insulate the hanging mechanism from the studs somehow, not sure how to do this and keep the rigidity needed to hold the weight though.
any additional sound insulation tip that applies to freestanding closets anyone?
My shop is in a freestanding steel building, i dont want to hang the collector against the red iron studs as im concerned it will vibrate the whole building in that case. Figured free standing closet out of 2x4 might be a good way to go.
a friend also noted to reduce the noice from the collector that might follow the studs into the concrete slab, put a thick rubbermat in betweenthe closet walls and the slab, something like a stable mat should work great. Should i just leave the closet to standfreely on top of this and not nail it into the slab in that case? Worried the closet might move unless i secure it, but maybe im just overthinking it.
or should i use rubber or other material to insulate the hanging mechanism from the studs somehow, not sure how to do this and keep the rigidity needed to hold the weight though.
any additional sound insulation tip that applies to freestanding closets anyone?
MarkFerraro
Member
My basement shop has a 1 inch layer of foam panel on the concrete floor with 2 layers of plywood laid at right angles. The plywood is tapcon screwed into the floor on 8 inch center. The free standing closet is built by 2x4s with 5/8 inch sheet rock inside and outside the closet. The walls of the closet and the ceiling are insulated with fiberglass batts. I made my motor mount out of wood and mounted it to a 3/4 inch piece of plywood. Between the wooden mount and the plywood sheet are strips of rubber. The plywood sheet is mounted to the studs using FastenMaster Headlok flat head 5 or 6 inch heavy duty that use the spider bit. That mount is not going anywhere.
There is absolutely no vibration, but I don't believe it is solely the result of an overbuilt closet. The motor is installed to the mount exactly as called for in the instructions. The motor is well balanced and level/plumb. There is no vibration transmitted into the shop or into the floor.
I have two floor to ceiling air return baffles and no appreciable sound comes from them. One baffle has an opening near the ceiling and the other has an opening near the floor. There is an internal chase in the baffle - the idea is that air leaves the closet from both the ceiling and the floor and has to move almost 16 feet before exiting the closet into the shop. Double heavy solid exterior wood doors seal the closet with rubber gaskets.
Other than the sound of air being moved in the pipe system, the motor/impeller/filter exhaust noise is pretty well contained. I'm well pleased with the results.
Good luck!
There is absolutely no vibration, but I don't believe it is solely the result of an overbuilt closet. The motor is installed to the mount exactly as called for in the instructions. The motor is well balanced and level/plumb. There is no vibration transmitted into the shop or into the floor.
I have two floor to ceiling air return baffles and no appreciable sound comes from them. One baffle has an opening near the ceiling and the other has an opening near the floor. There is an internal chase in the baffle - the idea is that air leaves the closet from both the ceiling and the floor and has to move almost 16 feet before exiting the closet into the shop. Double heavy solid exterior wood doors seal the closet with rubber gaskets.
Other than the sound of air being moved in the pipe system, the motor/impeller/filter exhaust noise is pretty well contained. I'm well pleased with the results.
Good luck!
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MarkFerraro
Member
Update - I loaded a decibel meter app onto my Android phone. Running the dust collector with the sound closet doors open and one 6 inch gate open, the sound in the shop is 78-80 dB. Closing the sound closet doors the dB meter shows 68-69-70 dB. Stepping outside the workshop into the "clean" side of the basement, the db reading is 59 dB. Standing in the dining room directly above the sound closet, the reading is 48- 50 dB. There is more noise from birds chirping and wind in the trees than the dust collector.
I don't know how accurate the dB meter is. Typing on my computer the reading is between 9 - 16 dB. Left clicking on my mouse is 25 - 26 dB.
The cost of the sound closet was shockingly high, but I have achieved my goals.
I don't know how accurate the dB meter is. Typing on my computer the reading is between 9 - 16 dB. Left clicking on my mouse is 25 - 26 dB.
The cost of the sound closet was shockingly high, but I have achieved my goals.
I recently purchased and installed a CV1800 with 16" impeller. I knew the noise was going to be a problem, as my shop is the first level of the house, so I built a 2x4 frame enclosure with 24"x48" interior space, and placed it on some old gym/weightlifting rubber tiles to isolate it from the floor. The cabinet is also 3" lower than the ceiling. The exterior is about 50% solid core doors (pockets I replaced with swinging doors), with sheetrock added on the visible sides. Rather than installing a door, I made two, 48" high hatches in front of the cyclone body out of 1/2" ply and 3-1/2" sides of 1/4" ply, attached to 3/4x3/4 braces glued to the hatch. The inside of the cabinet I lined with rockwool insulation, and stapled some moving blankets (bought off CL) to the studs. The back end of the closet is open, and covered with 3 "curtain rods" of doubled moving blankets (stacked and staggered) so that the slightest overpressure will allow return air. The top 2" of that area is open, so the motor can breathe. Leaving the end "open" allows full access to the filters, and the sound levels are the same there as to the side of the enclosure (with blankets in place).
dB was 91 around 6 feet from door without hatches. With hatches in place but a 12" opening above them (no soundproofing in the hatch) it dropped to 78. Getting somewhere. I added 3 layers of moving blankets to the hatches, and closed off the very top of the cabinet with some plywood leaving a 5/8 gap at the top for more venting. Sound levels are now down below 75dB - the wind noises at the machines are louder than the DC.
Total materials were the 2x4s for the frame, 2 sheets of 5/8" sheetrock, 1 bundle of rockwool batts, little over 1/2 sheet of 1/2" ply, and around 1/4 sheet of 1/4" ply. As I said, I used 3 doors, and various OSB scraps around the house, and 10 moving blankets. It was some work, but what an amazing difference. Not annoying at all now.
dB was 91 around 6 feet from door without hatches. With hatches in place but a 12" opening above them (no soundproofing in the hatch) it dropped to 78. Getting somewhere. I added 3 layers of moving blankets to the hatches, and closed off the very top of the cabinet with some plywood leaving a 5/8 gap at the top for more venting. Sound levels are now down below 75dB - the wind noises at the machines are louder than the DC.
Total materials were the 2x4s for the frame, 2 sheets of 5/8" sheetrock, 1 bundle of rockwool batts, little over 1/2 sheet of 1/2" ply, and around 1/4 sheet of 1/4" ply. As I said, I used 3 doors, and various OSB scraps around the house, and 10 moving blankets. It was some work, but what an amazing difference. Not annoying at all now.