CV1800 purchase debate

S

Silverfox

New member
Hi, I'm debating the purchase of a CV1800 and am wondering if anybody has had recent experience with their purchase. I cannot find but a few recent reviews and wondered aboutthe quality of the components after reading the tool mag review with poor performance and high caulk useage.

I have a large 30' x 46' wood shop and after reading the Bill Pentz articles have decided that the 5 hp cyclone is the way to go, but I'm also worried about my electric bill with so much amperage being drawn, I figure about 4500 watts an hour. That can add up running steady while turning for 3-4 hours a day. Also is it more cost effective to turn it on and off as needed, while doing other work in the shop. Thanks in advance for any input.:)
 
Silverfox,
My unit is one of Ed's builds from way back so I hope others comment on sealing the unit. The old ones needed very little caulk. Mine draws just about 4 KW max though the amount depends on which gate(s) I open. Our rate in NH is about 15.5 cents per KW-HR so I figure close to $0.65 per hour. You are right in that it adds up especially when you have other machines and lights and maybe AC too. I leave mine running for two reasons. First, single phase motors use capacitors for starting and they heat up during motor start. The usual wisdom is to start a single phase motor no more often than once every 15 minutes. It uses less electricity to start and stop the motor rather than continually running it but it is rough on the starting circuit. Secondly, I let mine run between operations to clean the air. I watch my particle detector and inevitably the numbers climb during any wood processing operation and fall afterwards as the cyclone acts as an air purifier. Hope this helps,
bababrown
 
I bought my 5hp CV1800 a couple of years ago when starting on my shop. It went together quickly and needed very little caulk. I have mine in a sound insulated room along with the air compressor so there is very little noise in the shop. I leave it running unless I think I won't use it for at least 15-20 minutes. The last time I measured run current it was about 14.5 amps - I don't worry about the cost of the electricity. It very effectively removes dust so the operating cost is well worth it to me. I very much like the clear cyclone cone that makes it easy to see if it is separating correctly duing setup and later.
 
I bought my unit 3 years ago but didn't put it together until earlier this year. So I have a model that sat in a box for at least 3 years and the MDF was unpainted/unfinished.

I have pictures of my build and installation in the picture gallery. I have my unit in a free standing sound closet in my basement shop.

Let me address your concerns one by one:

Caulk - I have no idea what magazine was talking about the use of caulk but I find the comments in the magazine to be ridiculous. I am as OCD as they come and I caulked every possible joint and connection. Some I did twice, just to be sure. I had very high wastage as I am a fanatic when it comes to nice clean joints, so wet finger and rags is where most of my caulk ended up. But here is how I look at it. The most expensive high end caulk is $7 or so a tube. I used middle market GE silicone or PL silicone or Alex silicone from Lowe's. I think it was $4 a tube. So I bought two tubes and threw most of it away. With tax I'm out about $8.47. Now compared to the $2,000 I spent on the machine (including the switch gear), is any normal, rational person going to focus on $8.47? I think not.

Performance - I measure this as both air volume being moved and noise. I am thrilled with the performance of my unit. I used solid PVC 6 inch pipe with very gradual turns and transitions, as you can tell from my pictures. I only used long turn elbows and those are at or near the table saw. Everything else are pairs of 45 degree elbows with 12 inch or more straights between them to reduce turbulence. The unit moves a huge volume of air, captures dust as advertised and does so with little noise. I sometimes regret spending money to have the sound enclosure built, but I did it and I can live with it. After adding a Shark overarm saw blade cover with its own 3 inch dust pick up the collection at the table saw is great.

My dust bin appears to be capturing the sawdust, the cyclone is doing its job and I have yet to find more than a fine dust in the clean out box under the filters. I always do a finger wipe test on the parts in the sound enclosure closet and barely can detect any dust.

Electrical use - I defer to the experts like Baba Brown when it comes to electrical use. All I know is that capacitor motors should not be turned off and on frequently. Sometimes I let the collector run if I'm making repetitive cuts, or shut it down after 10 minutes after the last cut.

As for the cost of electricity, I am indifferent. I live in NC in a house with 4 A/C zones. My units are running May thru October. I have 400 amp service and my electric bill is never more than $270 during the cooling season. In the winter months my bill is around $97 a month. I figure that I could buy a new $2,000 refrigerator to save $67 a year in electric costs (according to Duke Energy) or I can run my Clear Vue without any guilt. I choose the latter.

Finally of all the issues you have raised, you have omitted the most important issues/fact/factor - do you believe that Bill Pentz's theories on dust collection and potential health issues are correct? If you do not believe there is a scientific basis for his theories, then any dust collector will serve your needs. The cheaper the better.

If you believe that your health and the safety of your shop is paramount, then the Clear Vue is the answer to your questions. Once you make the decision to go with the Clear Vue I promise you will end up spending more on the piping, connectors, flexible hose, clamps, blast gates and hanging hardware than you will on the Clear Vue. The reason? The Clear Vue is a thorough bred race horse. You will do everything possible to maximize the dust collection possibilities of the unit. You will modify your ports at each machine to get the best performance. You will invent new ways to capture dust. You will use solid pipe as close as you can to your machines/lathe because it improves dust/chip pickup. Once you join this cult there is no going back.

Most of my comments are meant to be tongue in cheek. The Clear Vue is expensive to buy and set up to maximize the dust collection abilities. But I believe that the costs to run it are so minor as compared to the benefits. I never buy coffee at Starbucks and that saves me enough money to run my Clear Vue 24/7/365.

Good Luck!
 
Install at 95%

Install at 95%

I purchased my CV in 2007. I m pleased to say it is now 95% complete. A lot of procrastination as how I wanted my shop laid out. A couple of years ago I bought a very old 36" bandsaw. At 1700 lbs, not the biggest, but something you only want to place and pipe into once.
I cannot speak to the electrical cost, but you should be able to calculated based on the motor data. I have never found the cost of electricity an issue with respect to my workshop. Prior to having a nice big garage/shop 12 years ago, we were parking 2 vehicles outside year round. From Oct to Mar, they were both plugged in round the clock. That pushed our winter bill up nicely. Big impact on our electricity costs were switching our clothes dryer to gas, replacing the washer with an He front load (less water and better spin extraction) and installing a radiant gas heater in the shop. In the same period of time I have added the 3 HP bandsaw, and the 5HP CV and central air.

As Mark points out - Caulking. Have yet to consider. As a kit, with some assembly required, you have to expect to do some additional sealing. The instructions are online, so to walk into this blind is no excuse, especially for someone writing a review. When I bought mine, the MDF components were not nicely finished as they are today. I gave mine a good coating of shellac for good measure.
Overall construction appears to be lightweight, especially after you turn it on the first time, but, like you, I did a lot of research prior to making my decision. The only negatives seem to come from magazine reviews. Many of these cyclones are hanging in shops all over the globe.
I used PVC S&D pipe, so all of my joints are friction fit. I will likely tape seal. Another $50.00 in materials equals nothing in the big scheme.

Overall performance. FWIW, I was told many years ago that the CV would "suck the chrome off of a hitch ball!" I have not tested for leaks yet, but as I closed of each of the 3 primary circuits I have allowed for, I smiled at the amount of force required to open any of the blast gates individually.

Noise. More, but everything I run makes noise, so hearing protection is always on. I have good hearing, so want to keep it. I may look at some sort of enclosure in the future.

I have seen a few of the home made version of this cyclone in action, and they perform very well. One fellow live out in the country and exhausts to the great out doors. He often cuts 3/4" ply by the lift for some of his industrial contracts. The amount of debris out side is minimal and is mainly attributable to overflowing the waste bin.
Overflowing the waste bin with these cyclones is the biggest downside. They work so well, you forget about the bin.

Don
 
Don,

Sorry to add this shamelsss plug into this thread, but the Bin Sensor System I make and sell through the ClearVue Ccylones website works very effectively to eliminate the bin overflow problem users will encounter in many cases if they forget to check the bin regularly as Don suggests. You probably do not need one if you exhaust directly outside, but I have many customers that packed their expensive filters with lots of chips from planers or jointers when their bins overflowed and then immediately ordered one of them. Over 250 units in place, most on CV1800's.
 
McRabbet said:
Don,

Sorry to add this shamelsss plug into this thread, but the Bin Sensor System I make and sell through the ClearVue Ccylones website works very effectively to eliminate the bin overflow problem users will encounter in many cases if they forget to check the bin regularly as Don suggests. You probably do not need one if you exhaust directly outside, but I have many customers that packed their expensive filters with lots of chips from planers or jointers when their bins overflowed and then immediately ordered one of them. Over 250 units in place, most on CV1800's.
Click to expand...

No worries Robert. I have not had the problem myself with this CV1800, but have had the experince with my CV mini and have read about the fun that results from an overflow. Your device has no doubt been of great benefit to all who have it installed.

Don
 
Silverfox,

I bought my CV 1800 directly from Ed Morgano in SC and it was one of the last units he sold. I found that it was very well machined and was easy to seal up with the Alex II silicone caulk he recommended. I probably start & stop my system more frequently than is recommended, but so far, no problems.

Now, as for the bad review in Wood magazine, it was obvious that the system was not properly assembled from the photos. One thing that was apparent was that they left the bottom of the filter stack open ... no filter box. I doubt that they had read anything on this forum and possibly not even the instruction manual.

There is a reason why CV forum members share information and are enthusiastic about their cyclones. Clear Vue cyclones work! There are some tricks to make them work better, but the bottom line is that this is an excellent product with a loyal customer base. You just don't get that with shoddy products or workmanship.
 
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