Filter cleaning

S

strebble

New member
I'm a bit confused about cleaning the filters on the CV1800.
On almost all cyclone collectors with cartridge filters, there are internal brushes or similar to knock down the dust that cakes on the inside of the cartridge/filter. I don't see anything like that on the CV filters. Are you just supposed to whack them from the outside and/or use compressed air? Do you have to take them apart occasionally to clean them? How often do you clean them?
The CV filters have much more surface area it appears, 300x2=600 sq.ft., correct? Most other cartridge types are closer to a bit over 100 sq.ft. Is this possibly why they have the built in cleaning brushes?
I'm also curious about the nano filters. I haven't seen much user experience on the forums. Can anyone tell us their experience?
I was leaning towards the 3hp Grizzly, mainly because of price and ease of shipping to Canada, but now I'm not so sure. A second choice is the 3hp Oneida. I'm a weekend worker in a 24'x17' shop. The more I research, the more confusing it gets. :eek:
 
Hello Strebble,

The Clear Vue dust collection system with filters includes the Wynn 9L300BL filters. Each filter is 300 sq. feet and has a MERV rating of 10. The efficiency rating is 99.99% at .5 micron.

The Wynn 9L300NANO, is similar to the 9L300BL in size and has a MERV rating of 15, is made of nanofiber and has an efficiency rating of 99.999% at .5 micron.

Both are excellent filters and do their job well.

To clean the filters, we recommend you tap the filters once a day and clean out the collection box under the filters. You may also use compressed air in "pulses" about a foot away from the filter - this will push particles to the center of the filter and drop them into the clean out box.

There is more information in another thread at http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bullentin/showthread.php?t=730.

I hope this information helps. Have a great day!
 
strebble,
Here is another thread that discusses what the filter ratings do and do not mean. http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bullentin/showthread.php?t=1190 The 99.99% at .5 microns doesn't mean it keeps out 99.99% of particles .5 microns and over in size. The MERV ratings, once you figure out what they mean, are much better at telling you the actual % of particles they collect.
Also, since these filters were originally meant to filter from the outside to the inside, they clean much better that way too. After a few years of experimenting with different set ups, we are much happier with our current system with the filters contained in a box so they filter outside to in like they were designed to do.
Just our 2 cents worth.
 
Thanks for the response :)
Woodtweaker had posted that he was told the NANO filters were designed to have the air flow go from the center to the outside. Perhaps that's another reason to go with the NANO filters.
As just a weekend woodworker, I suspect that they won't load up too fast for me.?
I still have to wonder why all the other manufacturers are going for the smaller filter with the interior cleaning brushes.
 
Filter cleaning

strebble,
Find Bill Pentz's site and read his section on filters. I think it will answer your question.
bababrown
 
Woodtweaker had posted that he was told the NANO filters were designed to have the air flow go from the center to the outside.
Click to expand...
I read that too and was confused, because everything I have seen and read about cartridge filters says they are designed to filter from the outside to the inside. We are just using them backwards. Either way they will filter the air, but I know from experience they are far easier to clean if you filter outside to in.
 
filter cleaning

filter cleaning

Thanks for the response
Woodtweaker had posted that he was told the NANO filters were designed to have the air flow go from the center to the outside. Perhaps that's another reason to go with the NANO filters.
As just a weekend woodworker, I suspect that they won't load up too fast for me.?
I still have to wonder why all the other manufacturers are going for the smaller filter with the interior cleaning brushes.
I think they go with a smaller filter to keep costs down. But then with poor separation the filter clogs quickly so they end up with a cleaning mechanism. This is especially true on the non-cyclone units but even the cyclone units separate so poorly that they clog quickly. Also, realize that doubling the size of the filter cuts the time between cleanings by a factor of four.
bababrown
 
bababrown said:
I still have to wonder why all the other manufacturers are going for the smaller filter with the interior cleaning brushes.
I think they go with a smaller filter to keep costs down. But then with poor separation the filter clogs quickly so they end up with a cleaning mechanism. This is especially true on the non-cyclone units but even the cyclone units separate so poorly that they clog quickly. Also, realize that doubling the size of the filter cuts the time between cleanings by a factor of four.
bababrown
Click to expand...

I suspect that some manufacturers deliberately undersize the filters to create enough air resistance that they are able to undersize the motors also. Upsizing the filters might allow enough air to move that the motors are at risk of burning out.

Of course, the CV design does not have this problem since the motor is larger than it needs to be. Other manufacturers would put a 3HP motor in and run it right at the limit of overheating.

Steve
 
Woodtweaker had posted that he was told the NANO filters were designed to have the air flow go from the center to the outside.
Click to expand...
I've still been chewing on this idea and wondering why. So I e-mailed Wynn directly have had a really good e-mail conversation with Dick Wynn who answered personally. Here's the scoop:
Because the hobbyist dust collectors ARE using the filters "backwards" with the air flow from inside to outside compared to the original design for the industrial filters which filter outside to inside, the Wynn people anyway have made filters with the NANO side to the inside to service this market.
However, filters are available with the NANO material on the outside so you can filter outside to inside if you want to. You just have to get the right filters to do that. When I asked which way would make cleaning the filters easier, the response was: "If collector cost and size is a non issue I would have to say that collecting dust on the outside of a pleated cartridge filter ( from the cleaning point of view ) would be better on any given filter."
So there is the answer. Cleaning is easier if you filter outside to in, but setting up to run that way takes more room and hassle. But you can get NANO filters to work either way.
I still haven't heard back from Camfill-Farr...
 
That's good info, R&D :)

I plan on placing an order tomorrow for a CV1800 with the NANO upgrade :D
I'll assume that Clearvue will include the 'inside to out' filters, with the nano material on the inside, or do you think I need to confirm that?

Cheers, Scott
 
Hi Scott,

Yes, the filters that come with all of our systems are desgined for filtering from the inside to the outside. In the case of the NANO filter, Wynn Environmental has faced the nano fiber towards the inside. So, you are all set. :)
 
The filter press, supplied, established and commissioned by Expeller, brings to three the number of filter presses at the Lonmin smelter procedures. The other two are tower presses, unlike the new unit, which is a horizontal press.




[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Filter Press | Steam Boiler[/FONT]
 
Filter Cleaning

Filter Cleaning

bababrown said:
strebble,
Find Bill Pentz's site and read his section on filters. I think it will answer your question.
bababrown
Click to expand...

When cleaning your filters with an air gun around the outside, do not exceed 80 lbs. of air pressure.

As for the amount of cleaning, depending on use, you could go 3-5 months. Time and experience will tell. I just got mine hooked up. Once I determine the need for cleaning, I will make a note in my lPad with a tickle date for the cleaning interval.

Poppawoody,
 
Cleaning Filters

Cleaning Filters

Cleaning filters - I work in my shop everyday and empty the collector about once every week or two. I have gages that measure static pressure in the incoming line and back pressure in the filter systems. When the back pressure in the filters reaches 2 inches of water I clean them with compressed air.
I took the filters out for inspection and found that where was a very heavy deposit of fine dust in the inside of the filters that my cleaning method did not remove. With the filters open I watched as i forced air from the outside in and found very little cleaning occurred. I tried cleaning them with compressed air from the inside, it worked, but created a very large cloud of dust. It seems that the only good way to clean the filters is to remove them and clean the inside with a vacuum.

An update - After using the system for about 5 years I came up with a revised system for cleaning. When the back pressure reaches 2 inches of water with the inlet gates open I remove the filters and use a high pressure water hose to wash out the dust that has collected around the inside of the filter. Water is much better as you don't get all the dust in your face. I allow the filters to dry in the sun for a day then use an air hose to blow around the inside the filter to dislodge particles that have become trapped in the folds of the filter paper. Using this process I am able to get the back pressure down to 0.2 inches of water which is close to that of new filters.
 
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I don't claim to be an expert. It seems to me if you were going to clean your filters from the inside out, when the filters do there work from the inside out, it sounds to me that your going about blowing out the filters in the wrong direction.
 
Cleaning Filters

Cleaning Filters

Yes you are correct it does seem odd that I would clean the filter from the inside. The problem is that when air is forced from the outside in, the filter is so dense that the velocity of the air is reduced so much that it is unable to force the dust particles off the filter.

I found that blowing air from the outside in does help dislodge a lot of the dust, but leaves most of it trapped in the filter.

Once I cleaned the inside I got the filters back pressure to return to a point as low as it was when they were new.

Fred Sotcher
 
It would seem to me if you give your filters a good blow job with no more than 80 lbs. of pressure, and what's left inside does not fall out into your clean out area. I would chalk that up to seasoning the filters. It's been said that the filters don't really start to do there work until after they have been seasoned.

Since I got the info about the 80 lbs. of pressure from Richard Wynn, I suspect that before he put out that info, he took into account that the filters were not going to be as clean as the day you took them out of the box, after a good blowing out.

I'm going to blow mine off in the future, what ever I suck out of the clean out bin is all I'm going to worry about. Than I will screw my caps back on the clean out areas, and fire that Mother up, and go do some more woodworking.
 
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The original post described one of the short comings of many other dust collectors equipped with filters that have built-in paddles or brushes down their center axis to facilitate cleaning. Some examples are Laguna, Jet, JDS and Shop Fox. One model I recall even had a motor on it to drive these devices! The truth is that these other brands have lower efficiency cyclone separation than your ClearVue CV-1800 or CV-Max and the manufacturers have created a "benefit" to lure the unwary buyer into thinking it is a real benefit. In the race to make cyclones smaller and more mobile in the shop, the cones are poorly designed and upwards of 5-10% of the fine dust passes through the blower to the filter stack, clogging them quickly. It is a sham (as well as a shame) for the uninformed buyer who is lulled into thinking it is a good thing.

It is imperative that the bin and all penetrations to it are very well sealed so the cyclone can meet its efficiency rating of well over 99.9%. Leakage causes updrafts into the return air stream that enters the blower and allows that dust to get caught in the filters. I bought my CV-1800 in 2007 from the original owner of ClearVue and I visited their production shop in Pickens, SC, less than 30 miles from my home in western NC. They had two CNC machines running all day cutting blower and mini-cyclone parts connected to a CV-Max. The owner said they emptied the dust box at the base of the filters every 90 days with a yield of maybe a cup of dust (they may have emptied the dust barrel more than once a day). It is a very efficient separator and doesn't need any filter paddles!
 
I've had my Clear Vue for about 12 years. About 6 years ago while contemplating purchasing replacement filters, I called Mr. Wynn of Wynn Environmental, maker of the filters used in the CV, to ask him how to clean the filters. He gave me an idea I've used over the years. It requires two leaf blowers. I stick one leaf blower in the end of the filter and turn it on. Then I used the other leaf blower to blow the dust from the outside in (very important according to Mr. Wynn). As the dust is forced back inside the filter, the other leaf blower carries it away. My collector uses two stacked filters, I just leave them attached to each other for the cleaning operation. I also use my hand to tap the filters as I clean, this also removes considerable dust. Warning: this process generates an EXTREME amount of dust out the end of the filter. Be sure it's cleaned outside on a windy day, and be sure the wind is blowing in a favorable direction.

Mr. Wynn explained that the filters could be damaged by air pressure from a compressor hose, especially if the nozzle is placed too close to the filter while cleaning it. The pressure is far less from a leaf blower and non-damaging to the filters. That said, I have replaced my filters once as there comes a point where cleaning is not particularly effective.
 
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