Portable System Design

ICPete

New member
I'm just joining this forum after having read most of Bill's website and studied what I can find online about dust collection. I gave up woodworking as a career 30 years ago due to allergic reactions to wood dust. I had a typical 1-2 HP "bagger" system that mostly just redistributed the fine dust around my shop. Being in northern Vermont I kept the doors closed a lot of the time. Now I'm getting back into some shop work and plan a larger shop when I build our new house next year. In the mean time I am using rented shop space and wanted to avoid wasting money on a temporary system. My work will only be hobby level, and I should be able to open the garage doors quite often; but still I've decided to implement a high-quality collection and filtration system.

So I've ordered the CVMAX cyclone, the 16-inch impeller, and two 300SF NANO filters. I've separately purchased a 5 HP 3-phase motor and a VFD. Although my current and my planned future shop both have 10-ft ceilings, I want the system to be portable, at least at first, so I want to place the motor/blower down low.

I'm thinking about two basic options: 1) place the blower "upside down" just above the floor, with a 9-inch duct connecting its inlet to the cyclone's outlet. This duct will look like a candy cane, or an upside-down letter J. Then construct a plenum at the blower's outlet that extends horizontally beneath the two filters, which would sit side-by-side. This option seems to be the most straightforward, but I'm a little concerned about the additional pressure drop due to six or seven feet and 180-degrees of elbows in the 9-inch duct.

2) The second option would be to construct a horizontal plenum to join the cyclone outlet to the tops (internal inlets) of the two filters. Then enclose the filters in a box, and connect the blower's inlet to the bottom of the box, which would be external to the filters. This means the blower's outlet would be atmospheric pressure, and the suction at its inlet would be at a lower mean pressure than in normal installations. The advantages of this approach would be (I think) less overall pressure drop, and with the entire system at negative pressure, no chance that any leak could blow dust into the shop. Since the net negative pressure would be less than half a psi (3% of one atmosphere), I don't think there would be much effect on the blower's performance. I'm at 5000 ft, so the air density here is already some 17% lower than STP (hence the 16" impeller for a small shop system).

While I've thought up several "clever" ways to enclose the filters, I'm sure option 2 would require more fabrication effort than option 1, and the cost would probably be a wash. I'm also concerned about noise with option 2. The blower outlet would be unmuffled, and I might need to construct a huge transition from the blower outlet flange to a rather large area exit opening, to avoid a serious air blast across the shop. In option 1, as with all conventional installations, the filters must serve as diffusers, since they come after the blower.

So I'm wondering whether any readers here can offer advice on this question.
 
Hi Pete

If it were me I would set the cyclone as made in a frame with the base wider than the top if you have space to roll it around. The reason being when you do set up the permanent install it will "drop into place" because you don't have to remake anything. It would also allow you to enclose it with some sound proofing if you found the need.

Of the two options I would opt for #1 but with the motor at about waist high and the air exiting into a box on top of the filters mounted side by side. That way you still have the dust dropping to the bottom and not back into the impeller housing. A small benifit.

Either of your mounting methods would have the candy cane ducts of some kind which shouldn't be a problem.

What kind of VFD did you get? A Powtran like the Aussies use on theirs?

Pete
 
Hi Pete,
Thank you for your suggestions. Your description of a frame, wider at the base, is just what I had in mind. In the future I can simply remove the casters and set it on the floor. Great idea about the sound proofing; I'll make the frame bigger all around to allow for that.

I hear you about option #1; I'm definitely leaning that way at this point, mostly due to my concern about the noise and air blast if the blower outlet were completely unmuffled. Might as well let the filters play that role.
You pose an interesting option of raising the motor-blower enough to place the plenum ABOVE the filters instead of below them. I think that would raise the CG of the motor about 40", which may not be enough to destabilize the cart.

However I'm not sure I follow about the dust dropping back into the impeller housing when the blower is lower than the filters. Because the blower would still be located off to one side of the filters, and directly beneath the filters would be the plenum, which I would design with a floor sloping AWAY from the blower, towards a catchment bucket (I plan to use a Gamma Lid and 5-gallon bucket here, as shown on Wynn's website). But I get the gist of what you're saying, that having the blower above the filter plenum ensures all the dust from cleaning the filters would fall into the bucket(s), and no chance of it floating back over towards the impeller. As well, your suggestion cuts over 3 feet off the length of the "candy cane" duct.

Peter
 
To answer your question about the VFD, I haven't ordered it yet, but am looking at either Fuji or Teco E510. The Fuji FRENIC Ace series or C2 Mini series would run about $500 for a unit rated to handle 5 HP on single-phase input power. Their Eco series would also handle it, but costs a fair amount more than the other two series. I'm leaning towards these brands due to their excellent support, well-written manuals, and warranties. Fuji in particular makes significant claims about their drives being designed for 10-year lifetimes.

According to Fuji's application notes pertaining to use on single phase power, the Ace series FRN0030E2S-2GB is rated for 5 HP and 23 amps for normal duty, variable-torque loads (e.g., blowers). The same information shows their C2 Mini series FRN0033C2S-2U is rated for 5 HP and 19 amps. The former costs $503 at Wolf Automation, while the latter is $493. I've considered dropping back to lower-rated drives and limiting the motor current accordingly, which can be done within the drive settings. Given my planned usage, portable with a short duct run and one machine at a time, 3 HP ought to be sufficient. Then if I do have 3-phase power in my future shop, I could run the motor at its full 5 HP rating. Fuji's C2 Mini series FRN0025C2S-2U is rated for 3 HP and 14 amps on single phase input, with a cost of $432 at Wolf.

I realize you can find 7.5KW 10 HP drives on Ebay for $200 to $300, but I'm wary of their lifetimes and apparent lack of US support. I sent a question about the Fuji drives to their tech support email address and received a prompt reply from Jared Orlicki himself, who I noticed is the author of many of their application notes. I've also corresponded with FactoryMation, who sells the FMX series TD400, which is apparently a rebranded Teco E510. It seems they offer great tech support as well; but their pricing is not much lower than the equivalent Fuji drives at Wolf.

Peter
 
I bought the same one as the ones sold for the CV's in Australia. They use them to spin the impellers to the same as our 60 hertz system. Theirs being 50 hertz make a single phase impeller turn at 2800 rpm to our 3400 rpm. So they use a 3 phase motor and VFD and some even run them at 65 hertz. The Aussie CV dealer has programming instructions for the Powtran which is nice because the manual that comes with the unit is almost 200 pages long. The tech support is manned by english speaking engineers and I believe 24 hours a day according to the Aussies. The one I have is a P19130A 004G1. It was about $170US and shipping was about $80US. I bought through Alibaba but future ones will be straight from Powtran. They were great to deal with.



I have yet to put it all together and play with it. Ducting is very expensive around here. :(

Pete
 
Right, that is definitely a great price for a unit designed and specified for single phase input and 4 KW (5 HP) output. However in my case I am probably going to have 3-phase power for my future shop, so then I would need to replace that VFD with a unit designed for 3-phase input. Possibly that would be a sensible way to go, since I could probably sell the PowTran drive to someone who needs single phase input, if indeed I really do end up with 3-phase in my new shop. I guess I should think about that option as it could save me ~$250 right up front.
 
That series of VFD also come in 3 phase to 3 phase in a number of flavours and they make a lot of other model series too. Keep in mind any shop with 3 phase will also have singe phase too. Entirely up to you how you want to go.

Pete
 
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