Best practices for CV1800 setup

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Woodchuck

New member
Hello everyone,

I have been reading these postings for a couple of weeks and have finally taken the plunge. I should receive my new CV1800 this week. (Please forgive any forum faux pas made. I don’t usually join forums but this one looks too beneficial not to be part of.) My first thought reading some of the posts is that some of you have the patience of a saint or are exponentially busier than I am to wait months and in some cases years before putting your collector together. I have some shop layout changes I need to make to facilitate the install but I hope to be up and running soon.

With that I, like every other newbie, want to avoid making any costly mistakes. From my readings I understand the system is powerful enough to recover from any minor issues in design (run length, flex tube and turns) as long as I pay attention to air sealing and other critical steps. Got it - check.

Noise stands out as the next forum hot-button. Only having a Delta 1hp single stage, I picture myself turning this monster on and driving the local wildlife from the area, myself included. There are many ways to deaden sound discussed on the forums but is there one or two methods that although not be as “creative” as others prove to do the job reliably for reasonable cost? I am planning on building an enclosure for the unit with a padded baffle to vent air back into the room. I wanted to create a short list of “must haves” for a good install. Here is the list I am asking for feedback and comments on. Please add any I overlooked.

  • Rock wool seems to be the preferred material to deaden sound, is that true?
  • Separating the filters from the blower housing by insulated piping? Necessary if I am building an enclosure?
  • Enclosing the actual impeller housing in sound deadening material, being sure to leave the motor open for cooling. Beneficial?
  • Way to cool motor in fully enclosed “dust closet”. Necessary? (9'4" ceilings)
  • Enclosure design – Any gotchas I need to know about?
  • Vibration isolation – necessary if detached garage? (Tennis ball idea wins for creativity, willing to do the same if it worked well)
On to Electircal and full-bin sensors!!

I read up on many of the discussions about dedicated motor circuits and necessary wiring/breaker sizing and feel comfortable with that. What about the nice to haves like remotes and full-bin sensors?

Remotes:
  • In line master switch that kills the entire system so you do not have phantom starts, possibly wired to room lights for ease of use.
  • X-10 – some report issues of reliability if tube lighting is in the room.
  • Saw a link to a $40 unit that had good remarks. Need to find again. J
Bin full sensor:
  • Do all look at flex housing to determine full (LED and sensor or garage door beam)?
  • Seems it would create a mess when opening bin?
I realize this is long (first faux pas) but maybe it will become a “best practices” posting for all beginners to learn from. If one already exists, great, can I get the link?

Thanks for your feedback and I look forward to learning from all of you.
 
Best Practices

Best Practices

Woodchuck,
Welcome to the forum. Ask lot's of questions; that's why this forum is here. I'm a stickler on keeping the losses down in the ducts. It is true that if you use 6" pipe straight thru you will get airflow near 800 CFM. It might go down to 700 CFM on your worst run and it might be as good as 1000 CFM on your best run but most will be from 825 to 875 or so. But recall what Bill Pentz says. With 800 CFM at the larger tools you can meet the OSHA standard. With 900 CFM you can meet the 5 times tougher ACGIH standard, and with 1000 CFM you can meet the 50 times tougher (than OSHA) EPA / Med standard. You must do all the other things he talks about to meet these standards like using good guards and hoods. But my point is that a little more airflow does a lot of good for collection and, of course, a little less does harm.
On noise, I'll bet your new installation will be quieter than the old Delta. If you put all (especially filters) in the closet noise will not be a big issue. Cooling is not a problem if you draw air down with the "chimney" that Ed shows and bring it into the shop thru a vent mounted down low. My shop is small so the unit tends to heat the shop up but that should not be a big problem in a detached garage.
I do not use a remote but many do. I tend to run my system continuously when working so it can clean the air. Also, I have to move around to open and close blast gates so the remote isn't that important to me. If you use the remote put a kill switch in the 120 volt line to it so it cannot come on by itself. I've also not implemented the bin sensor; I've come close to overflowing the bin so I'm not sure how much longer I'll get away with that!
When you get your system running I'd encourage you to use a leaf blower often to blow down your shop with the cyclone running. I think that is one best practice.
Good luck,
bababrown
 
I am still installing mine. Here is what I have done.

I bought the complete system that comes with a 30A relay with a 110V coil. I added the suggested remote from Ace Hardware and placed both inside a gray plastic box from Home Depot. You need to run 4 wires to have 220V for the motor and 110V for the remote. I added 2 wall switches. One switch provides power to the reciever. This allows me to disable stray RF signals from triggering the relay. The other switch provides 110V directly to the relay allowing me to turn on the cyclone without using the remote.

I plan on building a cabinet around the cyclone, but am still deciding on the materials. I need it to be hinged or removable for occational filter cleaning and to empty the drum. I probably won't add a dust full indicator for a while. I have a 55 gallon drum on casters that easily fits under a 10' ceiling.

Steve
 
Maybe it's unusual to have a usual/typical installation. I work out of a 2-1/2 car garage that my wife still wants to park her car in. I stuffed my cyclone in the corner:

(click on images to enlarge)





I don't have a pic but added an enclosure with wool rock to the cyclone letting the motor stick out the top and noise is not an issue.

After I had my for about a month I filled the filters 1/2 way with dust. My previous dust collector had a clear bag that I could look at once in a while but the cyclone is hidden in an enclosure now. Bad thing is that I had a Bindicator that I picked up for less than building a shop made sensor would have. Yes you guessed it, after filling the filters my project waited till the sensor was installed. This "probe" sensor looks at the frequency change and triggers based on that. It has worked fine on 4 full cans of dust for me. I currently have the sensor trigger a bright light but the circuit board also has a relay that I can wire into the cyclones circuitry to shut it off. Still don't know if I want to do that just in case I just have a couple more cuts to make and can still catch the bin before it's full.





You are on the correct path - insulate for sound and add a bin sensor.

(BTW- when I got mine I was up till 2AM on a work day installing it.)


Good Luck,

Mike
 
My 2 cents would be to do the same thing Erik in Belgium did with the 'p' profile insert thing that he runs around the inside of the cyclone ramp. Look up cyclone ramp and I think you will find his thread about it. Wish I had known that before installing mine as my unit is installed with silicone from metal ducts and not easy at all to take apart and add in that profile piece.

Definitely use a bin sensor of some sort. Haven't filled a bin yet as I dump it too often but once the planer gets going strong it will definitely be appreciated as it tends to fill the bin fast.

Also not sure if it is worthwhile or not but Erik again added some sort of mdf circle to the underside of the propeller that changed something, can't remember off hand. But if you look up his posts you will find pics of what he did and what he thought of it.

Lastly, open all your tools up to 6" ports. Well worth it! Lots of work mind you as it takes a bit to install the cyclone, wire it, runs all your ducting and then custom fit onto your tool ports.

Have Fun! It's well worth it
 
Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. I placed a call to Ed yesterday and got some more great information on controlling sound. Even found a place locally here (Milwaukee) that sells Rock wool at what seems like a good price, $28 for 64 sq ft 2" thick. Boys, I think I am headed in the right direction. Mike - as for staying up until 2 am... my wife and son are going away for the weekend so Ed if you are reading this PLEASE make sure it arrives by this Friday so I can do the same.

Bababrown, thanks for the info on the cfm. You make a great point. You can make the system work well with out much effort but making it work great is worth it. I have a follow up question. Just because I can hook up a 6" pipe to xyz tool does not mean it will be efficient in its collection. What are some good design principles for making hoods, schrouds, and other pickup connections. Take my 6" jointer as an example, there is a limited amount of air that can move past the blade so do I have to create alternate inlets in my base to provide makeup air for the CV to move.

My ultimate test for the CV (and my abilitiy to build efficient hoods) will be if I can work wood all day long and then walk over to my Harley parked next to the CV enclosure and not see any dust on it. Having clean lungs is a nice extra benefit.

What about dust bins. Most use the trash can others I see purchased a barrel from McMaster-Carr. What are the pro/cons of each?

Thanks again for helping me get up and running.
 
Crafted,
I found Erik's work on the blower gap and he reports increased suction and around 10db change in sound. Install is the best time to do something like that so I am very interested in hearing if anyone else tried this and realized the same results.

Ed/Matt, have you tested sealing the ramp or closing the gap on the fan?

Thanks for the suggestions folks, any others?

Thanks,
Woodchuck
 
On Hoods

On Hoods

Woodchuck,
Airflow alone is not sufficient, hood design is extremely important. Bill Pentz spends quite a few paragraphs on hoods and has examples for most tools. I certainly would recommend reading his entire site if you have not already done so (I think you probably have). You first must stop the dust and then deliver it close enough to the duct to get sucked in. My 12" disk sanders have small gaps between the table and disk and that restricts airflow quite badly. Yet collection is good for most cases. One case when it isn't good is when I sand very thick wood near the top of the disk so the dust is thrown more forward than down. My 6" jointer gap also is small. I ran a 6" duct right to the chute which is more or less sealed under the jointer. I do not intentionally pull air from anywhere but the slot. I get 830 CFM and it does a very good job of collection. I did have to seal the chute at the front to keep chips from getting thrown out the front. It also makes a racket with the jointer running because the blades chop the airstream.
You've really hit on an important area and I would encourage you to spend lots of time going thru the albums looking at hoods for each machine.
bababrown
 
Howdy Forum Fellows:),

I'm with Woodchuck, new to any kind of forum, but very interested in reading everything I can about the ClearVue and everyone's experience. I received my CV1800 last Thursday. After painting and prepping I finally got her hung last night:D.

Mike, can you post a source for the probe sensor you used? I like that idea better than the light in the tube.

Also, my 1800 is about 12" higher than the "normal" mounting height which means my distance between the bottom of the cyclone and bin will increase. Is that a problem:rolleyes:?
 
EHoward said:
Howdy Forum Fellows:),

I'm with Woodchuck, new to any kind of forum, but very interested in reading everything I can about the ClearVue and everyone's experience. I received my CV1800 last Thursday. After painting and prepping I finally got her hung last night:D.

Mike, can you post a source for the probe sensor you used? I like that idea better than the light in the tube.

Also, my 1800 is about 12" higher than the "normal" mounting height which means my distance between the bottom of the cyclone and bin will increase. Is that a problem:rolleyes:?
Click to expand...

I was lucky and picked it up on e-bay. Try searching for bindicator there may be others.

Mike
 
Hello EHoward,

Congrats on the getting the 1800 up on the wall. The only issue I see with it being mounted 12" higher is you will need a 6" flexible duct stretcher to make the connection from the CV to the bin. :D I mounted mine higher too and picked up 25' of 6" duct from Mcmaster off the suggestion of another member. The price was good and it is working great. I really don't need all 25" but my layout is not perfect so I am benefiting from using flex in a couple of joints. The only downfall there is the impact to air flow and speed. If you have read Bill's page you know all about that.

Have you turned it on yet? I showed my boy who is 4 1/2 and his response was "Dad, that is awesome!" Made me feel like Tim "The Toolman". I am trying to find a Binford sticker to put on the side of it. He hasn't realized yet that the new collector is going to put him out of a job. I paid him a buck or two every now and then to vacuum up the dust in the shop.

Welcome to the family.
 
Woodchuck,

Thanks for the reply. I haven't got mine wired yet so no jet blast. I was showing it to a friend and we were a little concerned when my miniature dachshund walked by. I better put screens on anything close to the floor or that pooch might not fair so well. Try explaining that to the wife.

I need 6" flex at each machine so I'll check out McMaster. I noticed there is 6" and 6.4". Which one fits the 6" SDR pipe? I am taking the pipe as close as I can to each machine.

E
 
Hey folks,

I found 6" Economical Clear Duct for Dust # 56355K34 at McMaster. It's .015" thick. Is this the same stuff that everyone is using? I need to order about 25 feet.

"E"
 
E,

That is the same stuff I picked up. It is working well although I will admit it is a bit of a struggle to get it over the pipe. The best way I have found, and please chime in if anyone knows of a better way, is to use a heat gun to soften the duct enought to get it over the pipe. It is still not a slip on connection but, on a positive note, I don't need to worry much about much air leakage. I didn't see the 6.4 inch duct. I would rather it be a bit large and have to clamp extra than try to streach too little.

As for your dog... unless it is stone deaf, I don't think it will be hanging around much when you fire the beast up. Are you looking into any mineral wool or other sound deadening? I am finishing up my "sound room" for the CV and air compressor with high hopes of it making a big difference.

Have a great day.
Woodchuck
 
56355K34 from McMaster is what I used. There's no problem getting it over 6" duct. What I did was carefully cut open the plastic along the top of the wire for about 2 turns with a sharp exacto knife (being careful not to puncture the duct), and cut off that excess wire. Then it's easy to slip it over the PVC duct. I used plain hose clamps, rather than the bridging type, and so far there haven't been any problems. One thing you have to be careful of is removing too much wire; ideally, you want the end of the wire right up to the end of the PVC, so you don't have any unreinforced flex duct under suction. I have this in one or two places, and it caves in a little when the machine is running. It's not really a problem yet, but it might fail there eventually. The knife needs to be sharp (use a new blade every couple of ends). It really makes a difference in the effort required.
 
Thanks JJohnston and Woodchuck,

I think I will go ahead and place my order. I got my first run in last night dry fitted. I was pumped when I saw it up in place. It's the run to the table saw. I think it is going to look nice because I will paint the down pipes and the rest will be hidden in the acoustical ceiling. Woodchuck, I have installed the CV in a closet with my 60 gal compressor. I am looking into soundproofing and so far it seems rock wool is the material of choice. Wish I could find a local source for scrap open cell foam. Any thoughts on who might use that stuff?

"E"
 
One more open question.

I found a 55 gal steel drum with lid for $20. Anybody know of any issues in using a steel drum of that size other than the fact that if it fills up I'll have to have a BBQ to get someone to help me empty it?

That brings up another question. How do you dispose of 30 - 50 gallons of saw dust???:confused:

"E"
 
E,
Sorry, no ideas where to send you locally for the sound deadening or foam. I didn't even mess around with foam, I heard good results with mineral wool so I just called local insulation providers asking for it. I thought it was a decent price at $27 for 64 sq/ft 2" thick.

Thanks JJohnston for the "how-to" adapt the 6" duct. I am looking forward to better success with my next run.

Have a great day.
Woodchuck
 
I got my flex from Woodworker's Supply. Straight 6". It is tight, but goes over the pipe fine, wire and all. Best thing for getting it started is to file the outside edge of the pipe to bevel it. Makes getting the flex started a little easier. Jim.
 
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