Chimney Exhaust & bin sensor

T

Travis5

New member
I am new to the forum but have been around for some time. I bought a CV1800 a couple of years ago just when we were in transition of moving and have yet to get it set up. Still in boxes! I know it's hard to think of spending that much money and have it sitting around! Anyway, I'm finally getting my dedicated space! I am putting the finishing mud on the drywall of the converted space. We have a 3 car garage that I have partitioned off one bay of. The space is 12' x 21' x 10' fully insulated with roxul and new wiring. Heat and cooled with wall unit! The dust collector will be located in the closet in the 2 bay side. Closet is 41" x 48" x 10' also insulated with roxul. My question is about the exhaust. Do I need to exhaust back into the shop or the 2 bay side? What is the reasoning behind this? The garage is attached and I replaced the pink insulation in that wall with roxul and am going to put 2 layers of drywall on that with silicone between to help with vibrations. On the other side of house wall is a closet for the mud room so it shouldn't be a huge problem. I am wanting to finish this shop area up soon and get it painted so any help on the installation of the cyclone would be greatly appreciated!!! I have thoroughly enjoyed everyone's pictures on the gallery side as well!

Any other ideas on the wiring and bin sensor would be greatly appreciated as well!

Thanks!!
 
I would recommend returning air to the shop space, particularly if you use auxiliary heating or cooling to keep your shop warm in the winter and cooler in summer -- you won't lose that conditioned air. If your filters are located in the closet, then I suggest you make a return between studs with a high inlet in the clost and low discharge through a grille in the shop -- line the return with sound-deadening insulation and it should quiet things down.

As for a bin sensor, I believe they are almost mandatory for a closet-based system and I'm pleased to say that I make them for a reasonable price. I have about a dozen ClearVue and Oneida cyclone owners that use them and they are pleased. The system is based on a pair of garage door safety sensors that look across the flexible duct above the bin and will activate a bright strobe and/or horn in your shop when the bin fills. I've attached a picture of the basic unit components, on showing the basic setup and one with the sensors set up on an MDF bin lid. The unit can easily be setup for automatic shutdown of the cyclone and has a bypass switch to allow the user to keep the cyclone running if he is in the midst of a critical operation (like planing a long board). The unit sells for $175 plus $15 shipping in the US. Contact me for more details.
 

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McRabbet,

Thanks for the information! I guess my question about exhaust still has me a little confused in the purpose. Is the exhaust for what is coming through the filters or mainly for fresh air for the motor? If it would help I could locate the filters in the shop in one of the corners if there is a good enough reason to do this. I would have to run flex duct in the rafters (and the newly blown 15" of cellulose insulation). I really don't want to lose any more floor space since it's a little small already.

I have looked at building my own bin sensor but you definitely have a nice product. Do you have any problems with having the bin get that full before it goes off? Meaning that the pipe has to fill some first. Thanks again for the help!
 
Travis,

You could locate your filters in your shop as you suggested, but you'll need to make an adapter to convert the rectangular outlet of the blower housing to a round duct (I'd recommend at least 8", with 10" better) and minimize any turns before you get through the wall/ceiling to your filters.

The bin sensors will be blocked by dust when the bin is full, but long before any dust rises back up the center of the cyclone to get to the filters. Most users of my system report they used to empty their bins when it got 2/3's to 3/4's full, now they let it fill and rely on the sensors to give them ample warning. Bottom line is that it works well. Here are some comments by two ClearVue owners (I no longer use the black plastic enclosure -- I've changed it to a solid metal one in my earlier post in this thread).
 
Travis,
The CV-1800 will pull from 800 to 1000 cubic feet of air out of your shop every minute. That air must be replaced and should be replaced with minimum pressure drop so it doesn't affect the operation of the CV-1800 very much. If you put the filters in the closet (and I would) you need a hole cut through the wall to return the air to the shop. What McRabbet is suggesting is that you use a chimney to return the air to the shop. It can be built with two pieces of plywood if you put it in the corner of the closet. The bottom must open up into your shop. The top of the chimney should be open to the closet. That way you pull hot air from the top of the closet (cooling the motor) down through the chimney and into the shop. If you line the chimney with sound insulation it will cut noise going back into your shop even more. I would size the chimney for at least 10 inch by 10 inch open cross section; if you line it with sound insulation you want at least 10 inch X 10 inch on the inside.
bababrown
 
Bababrown and McRabbet,

This makes a lot more sense now with the return air. I have seen the chimney design with others but for some reason when I was designing my own closet I failed to implement it! Trying to fit it in now will be a little tricky but still doable. I was thinking the plywood route as well and will need to take some measurements. There are only 3 stud spacings in the closet. The first will have the 6" pipe running thru it. The second has the subpanel for the shop and the third is a partial. I may have to make the chimney opening more rectangular instead of square. From what you are saying Bababrown the open air space of around 100 sq. in. is the important part (I think).

Now that I think of it maybe the first spacing might be best since I could come to the floor with the chimney and then back over to that opening and thru the wall. I am taking pictures as the build goes so at some point I will try to post some pictures. Maybe others might have some ideas on the layout and piping design. The layout is somewhat set but piping could be helpful.

Thanks again!
 
Travis,
You can make it rectangular. This less oblong the better but if you increase the cross section a little it won't matter.
bababrown
 
Bababrown,

I'm just curious if there would be a lot of conditioned air loss when the dust collector is off into the closet. I'm not sure that it really matters since the closet is insulated as well. Does it matter that much if I cover the roxul with drywall or not. I do like the finished look better but I'm sure that the sound would be louder with drywall. Is it that big of a difference though?
 
Travis,
The heat gain due to the closet should be small whether the CV-1800 is running or not. The CV-1800 itself will add about 4000 watts or roughly 13,000 BTU/HR which is of concern in a small shop on a warm day. I'm not sure on the effect of adding sheetrock over roxul on sound deadening but my intuition says it will hurt.
bababrown
 
Electric

Electric

I think that I can deal with the exhaust but before I hang the last couple of sheets of drywall I would like to double-check the electric requirement. I have a box installed for the 30 amp 220v plug installed up high in the closet along with a 110v outlet as well. Is this sufficient or do I need anything else as well?

Shop is painted! Yeah! Moving on...
 
Travis,
When I did mine I split a regular 120 volt dual receptacle so one receptacle is always on while the other is switched by a control in the shop. The first is handy when I want to vacuum the closet with a shop vac. The second controls the cyclone. If you use a remote you can wire the second outlet to your shop lights so the cyclone can't turn on when you are away.
bababrown
 
Bababrown,

That makes good sense. I can still wire the 110 from the lights and that should work well. How important is running 12/3 with ground for the 220? I only have 12/2 with ground and I would have to cut drywall to get another wire in the box. I would prefer not to have to do this!
 
Travis,
I'm confused with respect to the 220 comment. If you have just one 2 wire cable with ground going to the box then hook it to your light circuit and forget about the second live receptacle. You probably have another receptacle in the garage anyway to power a shop vacuum. On the 240 volt circuit you should have at least a 10/2 wire with ground (ideally an 8 gauge) on a 30 amp breaker.
bababrown
 
Bababrown,

I'm not sure what I was thinking on the 12/2. I guess that I had been use to the 20 amp circuits that I was running for the other tools and really didn't realize it was a 30 amp for the dust collector! (Cart before the horse scenario) The good news is that I can cut a hole in the drywall right by the box and feed the wire in. I'm going to locate the 220 on the common wall between shop and closet right above the subpanel. I have a left over piece of #4 copper (4 pieces about 6' each)that I could feed into a dryer outlet. I could then use the dryer cord to power the motor. The only problem with this would be #4 is heavy to wire into the relay.

Can I ask another dumb question? Is the relay used for cutting power to the motor using the remote or bin sensor only? Sorry to be such a pain!! Most of the electrical isn't a problem but relays and such do confuse me. I would hire an electrician but I would hate to see how much they would charge for this!
 
Travis,
I believe the relay is used for both. I know it is with the remote. You might send a private message to McRabbet if he doesn't read this and respond.
bababrown
 
Can I ask another dumb question? Is the relay used for cutting power to the motor using the remote or bin sensor only? Sorry to be such a pain!! Most of the electrical isn't a problem but relays and such do confuse me.
Click to expand...

Travis -- you're not the first to ask this question and it's never a dumb question if you don't know the answer!!

The H230B relay (or contactor as it is called by the manufacturer) is designed to control 240 VAC power to the cyclone when 120 Volts is applied to the coil on the relay. You can think of a relay as a special type of switch -- the H230B is a double pole switch and controls both 240 power leads with a magnetic coil that close the two sets of contacts when 120 Volts of power is applied to the coil. Your question is how to control the power to the coil.

The user has several options to control the 120 Volts to this relay -- some folks use a wall switch in their shop to control power to the coil leads; others use a wireless remote control switch (like this one for about $15), which can be connected with a section of an extension cord from it's outlet to the coil; or the wireless remote control switch outlet cord can be routed through my bin sensor's internal relay Normally Closed contacts and then connected to the coil on the H230B contactor. I've included a schematic showing the circuit.

The Bin Sensor is set up to detect a blockage of dust flowing into the Cyclone bin -- when full, the sensor is blocked and both the Strobe alarm is triggered and the internal relay trips and opens the circuit supplying 120 Volts to the H230B coil, turning the cyclone motor off. The installation guide I include with the system shows how this connection is made.

Hope this helps.
 

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McRabbet,

Sorry for the late reply but I was out of town this weekend! Thanks for the information. I think that I get it a little better now! Hopefully I will get a chance to work on it this week and get this up and going! If I have any questions I will let you know. Thanks again to both you and Bababrown!
 
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