CVMax & Bin Collection

craigclick

New member
I'm setting up a CVMax. The impeller is rotating correctly (CC viewed from below), the filters are sealed from the transition, and my ductwork is in place. I've read in the manual how it's important to have the collection bin essentially airtight. I've two issues:
1) Some days I produce 6-8 bags of 50 gal. each. I'm looking for a way to put these bags under the cyclone, in some type of enclosure that would be sealed tight, instead of the inconvenience of using a modified 50 gal. drum or trash bin and having to upend the drum into a plastic bag.
2) I've tried to proof my system by attaching a plastic bag to the cyclone with tape. All my gates are open. I turn on the cyclone, and WAP, the bag gets sucked up into the cyclone.
What am I doing wrong?
 
The fan produces a vacuum which sucks the bag up into the cyclone. I use a steel trash can wiith a plywood top. I built a frame with 1/4" steel rod over which I place a standard plastic bag. Then I drop the assembly into the trash can. The frame keeps the bag in the can. When I pull the bag out to empty it I pull the frame out. I have photos on the gallery(richard l brown). There are posts and photos of several methods to keep the bag in place. By the way it will be extremely important for you to really seal the bin if you produce that much sawdust so filter maintenace is not an issue.
Bababrown
 
Another Approach to the Dust Collection Barrel

Another Approach to the Dust Collection Barrel

craigclick,

bababrown’s mechanical approach is a solid and straight forward solution. A mechanical hold down alternative to building one yourself is to purchase one. Since you are generating so much dust in a day, I am guessing you would prefer to buy a solution than build one. If so Oneida sells a 55 Gallon Drum Liner Bag Holder Kit and smaller ones:

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventory.asp?CatId={E73B4361-F6D4-44D5-A815-E35ECB580382}

JDS sells two versions of the “Bag Gripper” which is a metal frame bag holder.

http://jdstools.com/product-category/dust-collection-accessories/

For what it is worth there is a non-mechanical alternative. Some manufacturers anticipate the use of plastic bags for chip collection (Grizzly comes to mind) and have developed a system that holds the bag in place in a Dust Collection Drum. It requires a length of hose running from the cyclone inlet to the Dust Collection Drum. When a plastic bag is installed in the Dust Collection Drum, a vacuum is pulled on the outside of the bag, holding it in place. However, there may be some design nuisances of which I am not aware, including the diameter of the connecting hose and whether a channel of some sort around the base of the Dust Collection Drum is included.

Assuming this vacuum hold down design actually works, its advantage includes simply installing the bag and removing like you are now trying to do. However, all of these approaches anticipate a collection bag lining a drum. The Dust Collection Drum has to be sealed airtight and emptying and replacing involves too many steps for me. I went a different way.

My approach was to build a sealed Dust Collection Chamber in which a 40 gallon fiber Dust Collection Drum sets. The Dust Collection Chamber is permanently attached to the cyclone. I used a 40 gallon Dust Collection Drum because that is all the height I had, but the Dust Collection Chamber could be built as large as you need. The interior height of the Dust Collection Chamber is about 1” taller than the height of the Dust Collection Drum. When it is time to empty the Dust Collection Drum, the door to the Dust Collection Chamber is opened, the drum is pulled out and emptied – no bags. Then I slide empty drum back into place, close and lock the door.

The Dust Collection Chamber is a ½” plywood box sealed at the joints with silicone caulk. It has a hinged door. Felt weather stripping around the door establishes an air tight seal when the door is locked with 3 window sash locks. The window sash locks were installed so that as the locks engage, they pull the door tight against the seal. The top of the Dust Collection Chamber has a window of Polycarboante that offers a view inside the Dust Collection Drum setting inside the Dust Collection Chamber. A pair of LED under cabinet lights setting outside the Dust Collection Chamber and protected by Polycarbonate sheets illuminate the interior space. This arrangement makes determining when to empty an easy job. I outfitted the top rim of the Dust Collection Drum with a bicycle inner tube as a gasket and I installed a handle. The gasket forms a seal with the top of the Dust Collection Chamber and keeps the Dust Collection Chamber remarkably free of dust. The handle makes pulling the drum out an easier job. If the gasket is omitted, some dust escapes the Dust Collection Drum, but remains in the Dust Collection Chamber. Most of the chips end up in the drum without the gasket.


If this design interests you, some pics are upload in the thread concerning my CV1800 install:


http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bullentin/showthread.php?t=1758
 
You can also run a small ( 1/2") vacuum line from the bin to the suction side of the fan. The vacuum will pull air from the cavity between the bag and bin wall, equalizing the pressure.
 
Further...on Bin Design

Further...on Bin Design

Thanks all for your input.

I built my box, installing a flipper seal for the door and tubing to equalize the pressure. Everything works fine - didn't have to build a bag frame and am installing the sensor and soundproofing this week. My question: why is nothing passing through the filter to my 'clean-out box'? After filling several bags, there is not a teaspoon of fine dust inside the clean-out. As you can see, there's a lot of fine dust in the bin.
 

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Sorry about that Craigclick. If we knew you wanted dust in the filter clean-out bin we would have recommended a competitor's cyclone! More seriously it looks like you did a good job sealing the bin.
bababrown
 
craigclick,

Nice neat install. It looks good.

I too find minimal dust in the fine dust cleanout box.

Not being an engineer, I can only guess where fine dust has gone. My guess is that what little fine dust that escapes the main dust collection bin lodges in and against the filter walls. Since I happen to believe that a tall cyclone with a long taper coupled with the high velocity generated by the impeller, such as found on the Clear Vue system, produces very good separation and thus there is just not much in the way of fine dust.

If interested and as I understand the theory, dust particles entering the cyclone body are traveling at a high velocity. The path of the fast moving particles is directed downward and outward along the surface of the cyclone body. The taper of the cyclone reduces the distance of circular path of travel as the particles are driven downward causing the particles to accelerate and thus increase their angular momentum. When the particles reach the end of the cyclone body at the primary dust collection bin, their angular momentum drives the dust downward and outward, leaving few particles in the low pressure zone at the center of the cyclone outlet. As a result good fine dust separation occurs and little fine dust makes its way to the filter stack. I suspect only those particles that encounter turbulence, especially at the cyclone outlet, and those ultra-fine particles too small to escape the center low pressure zone are those that make their way into the filter stack.

I noticed from your photo that a fair amount of dust is escaping the dust collection bag. For what it is worth, my set up for the main dust collection bin is similar to yours. When I first used the system, I noticed dust escaping the dust collection container ending up inside the dust collection chamber. When I closed the gap between the dust collection container and the top of the dust collection chamber, the interior of the dust collection chamber was free of dust. Based on my experience, if you re-engineer your connection of the dust collection container so there is no gap at the top, dust escaping into the dust collection chamber will disappear.

Mounting the bag so that it hangs from the top of the dust collection chamber is one way to close this gap. Mounting an open 4 sided box to the top of the dust collection chamber with a pair of mounting rails on the outside of the box 2” or 3” up from the bottom edge of the box would be a first step. The dust collection bag would slip over the box and the mounting rails. Spring clamps could then be used to secure the bag to the mounting rails.

Another way would be to pad down the top of the dust collection chamber flush with the cyclone outlet. Outfit a light weight fiber drum with a rubber gasket that seals against the top of the dust collection chamber and use the fiber drum instead of the bag for collection.
 
Thanks all for your input.

I built my box, installing a flipper seal for the door and tubing to equalize the pressure. Everything works fine - didn't have to build a bag frame and am installing the sensor and soundproofing this week. My question: why is nothing passing through the filter to my 'clean-out box'? After filling several bags, there is not a teaspoon of fine dust inside the clean-out. As you can see, there's a lot of fine dust in the bin.

From what I see in the second photo, your bags are hanging on a rack support and the waste just drops out of the cone and into the bag.

Don
 
Craigclick,

I to own a CVMAX and was wondering how you got your lines setup? Are you splitting from 8" to 2 x 6" right at the cyclone inlet or did you do it differently?

In my case, I'm running a 25 feet 8" line and and from there I'm running 6" lines to each tool. I'm trying to find out if that is a good setup or if splitting to 6" right away would be better.
 
While my own CV1800 uses 6" all the way, I think there's no question that running 8" as far as possible would only improve things. 8" has lower resistance than 6", so for a 25" long run, possibly with elbows and stuff, it would give better performance than a 6" trunk. I think the CV documentation (somewhere on the site, saw it again recently but lost track of the exact link) even says so. It also recommended against going larger than 8", as the air velocity might then be too slow to keep dust particles from settling in the pipes.
 
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