Is a MAX enough collector?

[luvsawdust]

Hi all,
I'm new here after falling down the Pentz rabbit hole. I'm in a 3600 foot shop with 3 other furniture makers. We're in a big old brick building, on the second floor. Exhausting outside not really an option. We currently have a 3hp Oneida, and if doesn't cut it. We are looking to upgrade, and wondering if the MAX is up to the task.

Three of us are full time, one part time. Two machines at a time is a necessity, 3 on rare occasions. Our list of equipment includes:

Felder KF700 saw/shaper
Panhans slider
PM66
General 880 16" jointer
PM100 planer
Ramco 37" widebelt
20" bandsaw
edge sander
2 JDS Multirouters

Since the Oneida and the MAX have the same 8" inlet, I have my doubts, but I have nothing to support them. Does anybody have one of these set up in a larger, multiple user shop?

Thanks
Jason

 

[AlanBienlein]

With all the discussion on dust collection systems lately I figured I would take John Lanciani up on his generous offer of borrowing his test equipment. He sent the following test equipment for me to take readings on my home built Pentz design cyclone.

Dwyer 471 hot wire anemometer, a UEI EM151 digital manometer, and a basic analog clamp-on ammeter but I substituted my Sperry digital clamp on amp meter.

My system is home built from plans on Bill Pentz's website. It is a 20" diameter cyclone with the Leeson 5 hp motor turning a 16" backward incline steel impeller. It has a 5" x 10" rectangular intake and exhaust into 2 seasoned Wynn 9L300 filters. I did not clean the filters before taking these measurements.

Here are a couple of photos of my setup. I put numbers on each drop to make it easy to follow exactly what part I am testing.

This picture shows where I connected the manometer and the hole circled in red is where I inserted the hot wire anemometer.

Here are the pictures with the corresponding numbers for the test. All measurements were taken in the 8" duct and opening and closing the blast gates on the various branches. Talking with John he said to divide the FPM by 2.85 to get the cfm.

Blastgate-----SP-----FPM------CFM------Amps---------Tool

All closed-----14.9"---700------245-------11.8---------None

All open-------3.6"---6250-----2192------18.5----------All

#1-----------10.9"---3400-----1192------16.5---------SCMS

#2-----------11.5"---3125-----1096------16.3--------8" jointer

#3-----------12.4"---2900 ----1017------15.6--------Ridgid TP1300 Planer

#4-----------6.21"---5600-----1964------17.9--------End of duct work

#5-----------10.2"---3600-----1263------16.9----------Table saw

#1 & #5------6.51"---5200-----1824------17.8--------Table saw & SCMS

#2 & #3-------8.3"---4300-----1508------17.4--------8" jointer & TP1300 Planer


These readings are with the machines connected like they are normally used. Number 4 is an end of duct run that I thought I might use one day to expand.

As you can see these are considerably higher than the what is posted for the 3hp onieda.

 

[luvsawdust]

Thanks Alan for posting your results. While they are quite a bit higher than the Oneida-I'm not sure they answer my question. You have a nice, efficient, compact setup there. We do not. All your machines are within the distance of our first two. We likely have 5 times as much ductwork as you have. Our edge sander, bandsaw and planer are the last machines in line. They are probably 45-50 feet from the collector.

We are looking at ways to consolidate the footprint of our machine area, but we are challenged by posts 15 feet on center, power on the posts.

 

[AlanBienlein]

I understand that but if you look at my most restrictive run at 12.4" of static pressure and I'm still getting just over a 1000 cfm you'll see that is quite a lot better than thew onieda you have.

All this boils down to is you need a good duct work design that minimizes your static pressure losses. My longest run is to my table saw and the static pressure for that is 10.2" and I'm still pulling over 1200cfm. I'm thinking about switching over to 8" for that run and switching back to 6" for the drop.

 

[Manitario]

I know that this is a pretty old thread but I've been going through some of calculations for my own system and comparing it with what others have posted on this forum.
Alan, dividing your FPM #'s by 2.85 to get CFM will grossly overestimate your actual CFM: calculating CFM needs to take into consideration duct size (at the outlet) and air temp/pressure and humidity. There are a number of great online calculators that can do this, as well, Dwyer has a great app for iphone that will calculate this for you fairly simply. For example, if I use my FPM #'s and divide them by 2.85, I get almost double the CFM #'s from what they actually calculate out as.