Is the Blower Vac Conversion Lid Safe for Dust

[SawDustMaker]

I have been looking at the Blower Vac Conversion Lid option and it looks pretty cool. I have a shop that is less than 10x15 and frankly there is no room for a full size cyclone. Plus at $2k or more once I buy the cyclone, ship it to Canada and then buy all the 6" ducting Bill suggests, it just isn't in this years tool budget (no matter how much I beg my wife). Heck - I barely have $2k worth of power tools in my shop. So I am real excited about the Blower Vac Conversion Lid as a way to keep my lungs functional for another 30 years or so.

Yet I have read Bill Pentz' website until my eyes glazed over and it seems like he is saying that to use a shop vac (or even a smaller dust system) is asking for certain death. Or does the Blower Vac Conversion Lid actually mean a shop vac can be a suitable dust collection system for a very small shop?

In the dust generation department, I have a Bosch portable table saw (no room for the cabinet saw I really want but the Bosch is impressive for a portable), a Dewalt thickness planer and a router table. Can the 1670 shop vac and the lid handle these (the Dewalt thickness planer is the one that really has me worried as there is a warning on it - "Do not use with a Shop Vac"))? If I keep the hose length sort, the filter clean and the debris bucket from overflowing am I safe (or at least safer) from small particle dust?

Thanks
Eric

 

[dwdrury]

Conversion Lid

Conversion Lid

Eric,

I suppose the answer to your question depends on your expectations. A conversion lid or a mini (when they become available again) does a great job of making a shop vac efficient by keeping the filter relatively clean. So it'll provide the suction and airflow throughout the filling of whatever collection bucket one employs. But it is limited by the specs of the vac, which usually provides a lot of suction but low (relatively speaking) airflow. Thus it cannot hope to capture any fine spray of dust particles that Pentz warns about.

It will help somewhat with machines that have small dust ports that can't easily be modified. I have a Shopsmith and several of the attachments. In the gallery, I show it hooked up to various of the tools. It does reasonably well with the planer, and so so with the strip sander. But it doesn't get everything, as can be seen from the photos.

It is a good addition to one's shop, though I can't speak directly to the Ridgid as I have mine hooked up to a Fein. The nice things about the Fein are it is very quiet and it has a plug on it that can be used to automatically turn on the vac when a tool plugged into it is activated. I've even used it to power the Shopsmith.

The setup would also be good for hand tools like sanders that can be hooked up to a vac, and would keep the filter from clogging, thereby reducing airflow performance almost immediately.

In my opinion, the "ideal" shop would have both a mini or conversion vac AND a large dust collector. Which you get when is going to depend on budget, shop size, time available to install, all those things. In earlier posts, for folks similarly situated, I suggested getting the small unit now, then add the large when possible. What I'd warn against is trying to do the job with half measures and equipment that you'll just end up throwing away, as with my ancient Delta two stage "dust pump" and an overhead air cleaner. They don't do the job and don't get you closer to your goal with the money you've expended.

As for your planer, though I don't have the Dewalt, as I recall its port is a 4", and is designed for a low suction, high(er) CFM than a shop vac can provide. I don't know if any shop vac, with or without a mini or conversion lid, would do the job. Suppose you could try it, but wouldn't hold my breath. Especially given the warning on it. It may be the internals of the collection shrouds can't withstand the suction pressures.

Hope that helps. Holler if I wasn't clear or you need me to elaborate.

Regards,
DWD

 

[SawDustMaker]

Thanks DWD

This is a great help - of course I'd rather buy a shop vac like the Fein that you use, but with the MiniCyclone off the market for the foreseeable future, the Conversion Lid and the Rigid looks like my only option.

The Dewalt 735 has a 2.5" port, but [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]it has a "Fan-assisted chip ejection [that] vacuums chips off of the cutter-head and exhausts them out of the machine[/FONT]". Boy does it ever - get down stream of this puppy and you can get hurt with the debris (seriously). Perhaps it just destroys the shop vac motors or filters (without the cyclone in place). But reading some other forums (http://lumberjocks.com/topics/6220) seemed to imply that cyclones between the DW735 and a shop vac will save the shop vac.

Question for Ed and company: Can I modify the Conversion Lid for other (read quieter) shop vacs or is it pretty well only for the 1670.

And a question for the 1670 Users out there: How is the Lid/1670 combination to work with? The sound level ratings I have seen for the 1670 are 84 dB... That is loud, enough to definitely need protection. So I save my lungs and ruin my ears, uhmmm... (yes I can get the ear plus out...) . Any success in quieting the combination down?

Thanks
eric

 

[Jim O'Dell]

This setup is for the Ridgid only as it has to be the unit that will convert to a blower. The other Ridgids won't work with it either. The motor comes off the top of the shop vac, and mounts on to the side of the add on cyclone piece. So other brands won't do this, unless Sears has one that is the same, but I don't think so. Jim.

 

[bababrown]

Conversion Lid

Conversion Lid

I've measured the converted vac at 81 dB at 5 feet and at 86 dB with the hose plugged so the motor speeds up. For the usual short time use sound level isn't a problem for me. For longer times it would get annoying. For comparison my CV-1800 system runs around 74 to 86 dB sound pressure level due almost entirely to air noise at the hoods (the blower is outside). The foam earplugs work well for me.
The converted vac is about as easy to move around as the regular Rigid vac. It almost eliminates filter cleaning. I use the Clean Stream HEPA filters and when I vacuum near the laser particle counter, the numbers barely change. It separates and filters! When its nearly full you just pick the lid off and empty the bottom. You don't need to clean the filter.
I get some swirling of long shavings from bowl turning but overall it works very well
Bababrown.

 

[noah katz]

"But it is limited by the specs of the vac, which usually provides a lot of suction but low (relatively speaking) airflow. Thus it cannot hope to capture any fine spray of dust particles that Pentz warns about."

Actually I wonder how true that is after reading about the new above-table dust collection for the Sawstops.

They claim 99% capture with combined 150 cfm for the upper and lower collection points.

I believe Bill bases his statements on the typical large gaps around the dust generating area of tools, which then requires high CFM.

If the gaps can be closed down, the higher suction of shop vacs might be able to keep the fine dust inside.

Seems to me that the fines ought to be easier to catch - you can throw a handful of chips a lot farther than fines because the weight to surface area ratio is higher.

This would just require sufficient distance from the ejection point to collection point for the particles to slow down, and/or a serpentine path that could be navigated a lot easier by the suction ait than the dust.

 

[Matt]

Noah you are correct that if the hood is designed right that you only need a slight negative pressure to collect the fine dust and a shop vacuum could provide that. Problem is Designing the hood for each setup that each machine is capable of. I have several machines that I can use my shop vac on for a few set-ups but for example if i swing the head on my radial arm saw all of a sudden i need a new hood or more suction, Same goes for my table saw If i put a DADO Set-up on and remove the top guard altogether. Not saying either of these situations demand a full blown Dust Collection system but as you stated is why bill talks about the high cfm Requirements.

Matt

 

[noah katz]

"Problem is Designing the hood for each setup that each machine is capable of. "

Sure enough.

For me the table saw is by far the biggest offender.

Let's see, the teeth on a 10" blade are moving at close to 10,000 fpm, more than any other tool I can think of, so I guess that's not surprising.

 

[KevinH]

Eric, my situation is very similar to yours. I have a small shop at the front of my 26' deep two car garage, so everything has to be portable so I can put it away. I have the Bosch 4100, the DeWalt DW735 planer, and getting ready to pick up a 6" jointer soon I hope. I also have the Ridgid WD16650, and I'm waiting on the Clearvue conversion lid.

I have found that with the improved dust ejection systems most new tools have, the Ridgid does a decent job. I'm sure there is still a lot of fine dust floating around, but I wear a dust mask most of the time. I don't have room for a full-blown dust collection system either, so this will have to do. The planer will clog the shop vac filter pretty fast, so I'm hoping the conversion lid will help.

When you get your shop vac, you will find it plugs directly into your Bosch saw without problems. The DeWalt planer is another matter; it does NOT plug in directly, as the fittings are about the same size. I used a plumbing connection to connect the two (see pictures). It's not very pretty but it was in my "Random Fittings" box and was free and convenient.