Problems with Clearvue Mini set up

[David Klotz]

Folks-

I am the new owner a Mini CV 06. It is paired with a brand new Ridgid 11 amp shop vacuum, equipped with a HEPA filter. Mods to the vacuum include:

1) drain outlet cap threads sealed with plumber's tape;
2) weather stripping added to top of bin for a better seal (substantial improvement in suction);
3) Ridgid diffuser/muffler added, stuffed with stel wool.

The run from the cyclone to the vacuum inlet is extremely short, less than a foot.

My problem is that the suction is so great the container beneath the cyclone collapses. My first container was a Rubbermaid Brute 20 gallon trash container. The top was fabricated from 3/4" cabinet grade birch plywood, router grooved and weather stripped on the underside for a tight seal to the trash can. The cyclone was attached with carriage bolts, and sealed with silicone caulk.

Even at steady state, no load running, the trash can would slightly collapse. Add a hose full of sawdust, and the can would seriously collapse, and compromise the seal.

So, I scrapped the Rubbermaid trashcan, and tried a 20 gallon, "heavy duty" galvanized steel trashcan. Then, I fabricated a second top for that, and fired it up. Same bad result. Any suction load, and the can would resoundingly collapse.

Any suggestions on what I can do? I'd prefer not to buy a 55 gallon drum. Too heavy to empty, and too heavy to trundle around the shop. Also, I have already made up a rolling cart for the cyclone and vacuum.

Any input would be most appreciated.
Pics attached....

Thanks-David Klotz

 

[McRabbet]

My suggestion would be to make an "X-shaped" insert from 3/4" MDF or plywood to fit inside the Rubbermaid bin -- make a template from cardboard to mimic the side slope of the container and use it to make the two parts; use a pair of half cuts to "egg-carton" the X. I'd leave 6-8" clear at the top, but maybe add cutouts to lift it out of the bin if needed. This should add an internal partition to support the plastic sides. No doubt about the strength of your vac! It SUCKS!

If that doesn't work, change it over to a 5 gallon joint compound bucket -- that's what I use for mine and it works great with my 16 gallon ShopVac.

 

[David Klotz]

McRabbet -
Thanks for the reply. You are right. This shop vac is a beast!

After careful consideration, I chose the Ridgid over the Fein, and am plased to have done so. It's not as quiet as a Fein, but is not bad at all, and nothing like the five year old shreaking 16 gallon Craftsman shop vac it replaced.

The hefty sidewalls of a plastic bucket might help, but I'd rather not give up the capacity of the bigger can, if possible.

I will consider internal bracing for one of the cans I have, and very much appreciate your input.

 

[dwdrury]

A few things to try first

A few things to try first

David,

McRabbet's solution should work. But before going to the trouble, you might want to do a little experimenting first.

Think I'd try hooking up the shop vac directly to the container lid, in other words bypassing the cyclone. See if that, too, collapses the can (should, but might not, might be the extra little bit of weight). Next, see if it also does it after removing those bungee cords that are wrapped around the can's handles. Those, too, put load onto the can's sides and might contribute to the can's collapse.

If either of the two yield no collapse, then you have a couple of other avenues of solution.

Also, rather than the insert that may make emptying a bit messy, you might also consider stiffening up the sides, maybe some aluminum angle or narrow pieces of something like birch ply adhered to the barrel's sides (Gorilla glue or epoxy, or maybe even caulk). This might work if the side walls are simply too thin on the barrel and the collapse force is essentially vertical, but won't work if its a hoop strength sort of problem. In that case, McRabbet's solution might be your best bet.

I will add that I've noticed if the inlet hose to my Mini is partially or fully blocked, you can see the lid get sucked down a good half inch or so, and its steel. The barrel, salvaged from a 32 gal Craftsman shop vac, seems to have sufficient structural integrity to avoid deflection ( http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/Mini+CV06/DWDs-CV-06-Mini/ ). If you still have your old 16 gal Craftsman, you might consider using its barrel.

I made the other choice, the Fein. And, yes, it is very quiet, especially as compared to the old shrieking Craftsman, before the latter died.

Also see http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/Mini+CV06/album09/ for R. Vath's solution to suction collapse, especially the last photo in that gallery.

Regards,

DWD

 

[David Klotz]

DWD-
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I actually e-mailed Bill Pentz on this, and he suggested a different iteration of McRabbet's olution: internal disks of plywood, vertically stiffened with 1" dowels. that sounds good, but, as you pointed out, it will complicate emptying the bin slightly.

As indicated in the prior post, I have already built the cart, and would just as soon not scrap it, but will if I have to.

Will a fiber drum have sufficient integrity, on its own, to take the suction? If so, I may as well just order one from McMAster. A 15-20 gallon is roughly the same dimensions as the ill fated rubbermaid "Wimp", I mean "Brute" trashcan I bought.

Thanks again fro your help.

-David

 

[dwdrury]

Trashcan

Trashcan

David,

Well, to be fair, the trashcans are designed to resist pressure towards the outside, which puts the sides into tension like a hoop. The material Rubbermaid uses for the Brute is probably plenty strong for that. But it isn't rigid enough to resist suction loads, compression, hence your result.

The hoop idea Pentz suggests is also what R. Vath used, with success.

Have no direct data whether or not McMaster's drums are rigid enough to solve your problem but suspect they are. The fiber drum that came with my old Delta "dust pump", 55 gal., is plenty rigid. Plus, I gather from these forums others have used their drums with the larger CV1400 and CV1800 machines. Though suction pressure with those isn't as large, as they have high airflow but lower suction as compared to a shop vac, I'd wager they're plenty strong for either application. Note, too, others have reported the large machines are capable of actually lifting barrels off the floor (as Jameel Abraham's audio file highlights).

I gather from your reply the drum from your old 16 gal. Craftsman is either unavailable or not well suited for the task due other complications, such as sealing the old inlet or lid itself.

One final idea for you: make your own box to fit the cart. Half inch baltic birch ply shouldn't be too heavy, might even be able to get away with quarter inch. And if you want, you can use aluminum angle for the corners, simplifyiing the joints. The tough part of that scheme is where the vertical corners meet the bottom, but it can be done either via overlap or carefully cut miters on the angle. Must also add, though, that AL angle seems pricy at present, at least at the local big boxes. Personally, I'm considering this scheme for my CV1800 that's under construction at present. Depends on dimensions available once the thing's up on the wall plus what I can find for a can, the old "make or buy" tradeoff.

Suppose for you it also depends on how you plan to empty the thing. If you're going to bag and toss into the outgoing household waste, then this probably isn't a great idea. But if you're going to use the chips and dust as mulch, then form factor isn't all that big a deal.

Regards,

DWD

 

[Slick]

If it were me..I'd probably put a wood disk at the bottom of that trash can and attach supports up the side of the can...wood dowels, small steel rod, angle aluminum something like that...make those either insert into the top wood ring you already have or make another small hoop at the top of that connects those supports (which could insert into the lid when closed)...I'd probably chaulk or glue that support into the can which shouldn't cause to many problems when dumping it.