Review: McRabbet Low Voltage Bin Sensor

[reprosser]

I finally was able to install my ClearVue 1800 (purchased almost 2 years ago...) After reading about the issues of letting the barrel overfill and dump sawdust into the filters - I decided to be proactive and install a bin sensor when I installed the cyclone. I had seen a number of bin sensor setups, and was going to cobble together one of McRabbet's designs when I saw he was offering a kit. The kit had all the design features I wanted, and I did not have to go dig up, or substitute parts. And the cost was very reasonable - just a little more than the parts. Looked like a Win-Win for me, so I ordered one.

The parts arrived well packaged and complete. I sorted thru everything, read the instructions, and was ready for the install - almost. I still had to make a top for my 55 gal barrel and wire a wall switch to turn on the cyclone. The one thing I could do was mount the strobe/horn alarm. I have a large shop (see my install pics in the gallery) and I wanted to mount the alarm overhead in the middle of the shop for good coverage. This placed the alarm about 40 feet from where the control box would be located (in the noise room with the cyclone). The kit contained 100 feet of speaker wire for remote locations, so I did not have to get my own. I was a little concerned about the small size of the wire running that far, but Rob assured me it would work fine. I took the ends of the wire to connect to the alarm and found out is is much easier to attach the wires before mounting the alarm flush to the surface. The screws sit close to the rear of the unit, so I had to work a little to slide the connectors under screw heads - but it was not a big deal, just would have been easier to attach before mounting.

A couple weekends later, I had the cyclone running and was ready to install the sensor kit. Per the instructions, I ran the wire from the alarm to the controller box, installed the wiring from controller box to relay box (8x8 pvc box from Lowes), mounted the sensors to the bin lid, and connected the sensor wires. I plugged up the 12 volt supply that was in the kit, flipped the toggle switch, the red light on the control box lit up, and I was ready for testing. It was harder to run the 110 light circuit and the wall switch - than it was to install the controller.

I called over the LOML, and flipped the wall switch to start the cyclone.

and

everything worked as designed . The cyclone ran great. If I blocked the sensors for ~10 sec, the alarm light and horn sounded and shut down the cyclone. If I switched the bypass, after 10 sec, the alarm went off - but the cyclone continued. If I turned the bin sensor controller off, the cyclone worked normally with the on/off switch on the wall.

Since the initial test, I have run the table saw, chop saw with no issues. The alarm did go off when I was planning a long board. I watched the sawdust streaming thru the flex pipe when the planer was running, and it was very thick - no way the sensors could see thru it. The long board sent sawdust thru and blocked the sensors for more than 10 sec, so they did their job perfectly. Since I knew the bin was only half full, I bypassed the alarm while planing. I even remembered to switch back after planing...at least I think I did...

Ok, Ok, I gotta find some improvement suggestion for the kit. The kit is really good, so it is difficult to find any faults. I guess FREE would be an improvement, but not realistic.

The only thing I can come up with is that the controller box screws are installed from the rear. Once you mount the unit to the wall - you cannot disassemble the box to make any adjustments or repairs (it is possible to forget to slide on a connector before you close up the box - ). So, a box that could be opened from the front would allow corrections without having to remove the unit from the wall.

I am pleased and happy with my cyclone and McRabbet's full bin sensor kit. It is a simple set up, and the kit has most everything needed for installation at a great price.

I would recommend this to anyone who wants a good solution without having to spend time putting something together on their own.

It is great to have a forum like this where we can help each other to make the best use of our time.

 

[McRabbet]

Rick,

Thanks for the nice review -- it helps to get such positive feedback!

I do have a suggestion about the premature shutdown during a large planing run. I have noted that dust "usually" follows a spiral path down the cone and through the flex. I suspect your sensors may be aligned with that concentrated zone, so try to rotate your bin lid 90 degrees to see if you can find a clearer section for the sensors to look through during cyclone operation. When the bin fills, the sensors will be blocked.

I chose the black enclosure to keep the electronics clean and to keep the price point lower, but also because once the interconnction with the dust collector control is made, there should be no reason to open the enclosure again. My installation guide also gives the correct sequence, so you must have missed that part !

Glad you enjoy it -- for others that may be interested, here are copies of the two versions I offer -- one with just a bright strobe as the alarm and the other with a combined audio and strobe alarm in a separate enclosure. Contact me if you are interested in more details.

Robert R. Payne
McRabbet Woodworks
70 Hounds Chase Drive
Hendersonville, NC 28791
rrpayne@bellsouth.net

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I have had my CV1800 for about three years. Even though I'm worried about the bin level and had a Bindicator in the bin I still filled the filters three times!. It takes almost an hour to clean them out good. The problem with my bindicator is it is sensitive to the density of the dust. My last filter stuffing happened after I upgraded to a spiral head jointer and planer. The chips are very fluffy. After the last filter plugging I had it and contacted Rob. I looked at other sensors available but his did not require anything hanging inside the bin.

I'm another happy customer (so far). Rob was very helpful with all the questions I had before the purchase. The instructions were great. My cyclone is in my garage shop so I chose to get the model with a strobe light and no alarm. I wired mine so that the remote for the cyclone also powers up the sensor electronics. I also don't let the sensor shut down my cyclone. My install took a little over two hours but that includes running some conduit and fabricating the brackets to work with my setup.

Since I'm short on space on my CV1800 install I only have about a 5" or 6" piece of clear flex hose between the bin lid and the cyclone cone. Rob assured me it would be OK. I've only had one full bin but the sensor worked as it should. I'm working on cabinets for our kitchen right now and will start milling lumber for the doors and drawers soon so will be able to give the system a workout soon.

Here are a few pics of my setup:

Mike

 

[AndyBoyd]

Wheer can I oreder a McRabbet Low voltage bin Sensor kit

Wheer can I oreder a McRabbet Low voltage bin Sensor kit

I've been Googling around and cannot find where I can order a level sensor for my cyclone, any hints anyone?

thanks

 

[cvcsupport]

Andy,

You can find McRabbet's bin sensor on the Clear Vue Cyclones web page, under Supporting Products. www.ClearVueCyclones.com

CVC Support

 

[McRabbet]

Andy,

The McRabbet Bin Sensor that is available on the CV website has been upgraded since Rick Prosser purchased his unit from me early last year. As you will see in the photo on the website, it is now enclosed in a bright red solid metal enclosure and features both a bright strobe and a switch-optioned horn to alert the user when the cyclone's dust bin has filled. An additional switch is provided on the control box to allow the user to bypass automatic shutdown while doing certain operations (like while planing a board) when a few additional moments of dust collection is needed even with an alarm condition showing the bin has filled.

I've attached 2 pictures to give you a better view of the new unit. The first picture shows all of the components shipped with the system and the Control Box picture shows (1) the Power Switch with an LED; (2) the Horn Onn/Off switch; (3) Non-metallic 14/2 cable provided by user to connect to cyclone control relay for automated shutdown; (4) Bypass/Normal switch mentioned above; and (5) the Strobe/Horm unit. The opposite side has connectors for a 12 VDC power supply and the sensors that are installed each side of the flexible duct below the cyclone. Full instructions for installation and operation are provided with each unit.

Hope this helps.

 

[sevansx]

Full bin indicator

Full bin indicator

I am looking for a full bin indicator, but do not like the idea of having the lasers above the top of my barrel. It seems that by the time the sensor does its magic, the barrel is past the full point.
Is there a way to use this system inside the barrel?

 

[McRabbet]

The sensors (they are not lasers, but are Genie garage door safety sensors that use an InfraRed LED source and a companion photodetector) are mounted to "look through" the flexible duct just above the bin. On more than 75 installations of this system, I have heard of no complaints that dust and chips get re-entrained and clog the filter and not that the bin was too full to manage. The "full bin" in almost every case doesn't mean there is no remaining space in most bins -- they are 90% or so "full", enough to block the sensors for 10-12 seconds. Customers have mounted their sensors either to the bin top itself using the brackets provided, or on a set out mounts protruding out from the wall behind the bin. I've attached photos of each method (the bin top photo is of an older sensor model). The main advantage of the wall-mount method is that alignment is not impacted when emptying the bin (it rarely happens on bin-top mounts either), and the wiring is well out of the way.

I've also included a picture of the latest version, which has a brighter strobe unit and more switch settings for the tone choices for the horn. Do not hesitate to ask more questions if I haven't covered what you need to know.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I am looking for a full bin indicator, but do not like the idea of having the lasers above the top of my barrel. It seems that by the time the sensor does its magic, the barrel is past the full point.
Is there a way to use this system inside the barrel?

I've had one installed for almost 2-years now. My sensor is mounted to the bin lid. I like the fact that my bin is completely full every time. All I do is lift the lid a little and push the dust down a little and the dust in the hose drops into the bin. I would highly recommend this.

Mike

 

[Fingerpicker]

Hi Sevansx,

I recently got my CV 1800 installed after having it sit in boxes for three years. I decided to install the McRabbet Bin Sensor from the get go. So far, I have only had the sensor trip once, while planing several boards. I shared your concerns about over filling the bin before the sensor would trip. In my case, I mounted the sensors to the wall about 10" above the bin lid (see attached photo). When it did trip a few evenings ago, there was a column of shavings that extended about 4" above the sensor location.

When I carefully cracked open the bin lid I found that the shavings had formed a column in the center of the bin. All I had to do was give the bin a slight shake and all the shavings fell out of the flex and filled the bin to about 2" from the top. I don't know it will always work like this, but in this case at least, it was perfect.

So far, I've been using my CV 1800 since late January and so far I can't see so much as a spec of dust that has fallen down into my filter box. See photo. Also, my dust bin has shown no inclination to lift itself off the floor. I think that all the advice in the forum about sealing all joints well has paid off.

 

[McRabbet]

Hi Mike and Kim,

Thanks for the kind words about the performance of your Bin Sensor systems -- Mike's model goes back to the early days when I used a black ABS plastic enclosure (see the pictures on the post I made nearly 2 years ago in this thread) and the earlier version of the Genie sensors, while Kim's system is housed in a heavy metal double gang enclosure made originally for fire alarm units. Despite their very different appearances, both of these units use the same custom circuit board that has proven to operate reliably on several makes of cyclone for dozens and dozens of fellow woodworkers. I continue to make improvements in several components, even since Kim purchased his unit back in February this year (e.g., I am now using a brighter and louder strobe/horn unit on my current models with 8 adjustable horn tone settings).

If readers want additional information, do not hesitate to send me a PM or an email message.

 

[sevansx]

Cyclone Dust Bin Full Sensor

Cyclone Dust Bin Full Sensor

I believe you guys may be slowly talking me into this..

BTW: If you haven't cleaned your filters lately, take the time and do so. After using your system over a long period, performance slowly deteriorates and you seem to forget just how much suction is supposed to be produced.
I cleaned my filters yesterday and performance is back to new.

 

[McRabbet]

sevansx:

I realized I didn't answer your question about installing the sensors inside the bin or below the top with windows on opposite sides. While these are possible configurations, I don't think you would find them acceptable alternatives. If you mounted the sensors to the inside of the cover and added an airtight connector for the wiring to pass through, you'll run the risk of clogging the windows of the sensors with dust long before the bin fills. If you added clear plastic windows to each side of the bin and figured out a way to mount the sensors to be aligned through the windows, you will probably get premature indication of a full bin due to the natural way that the bin fills. Generally, the bin will fill toward the outside perimeter and leave a conical empty zone as the cycloninc motion of the debris moves into the bin. Again, I suspect you will find the bin is well less than full when the sensors get blocked. In addition, you would have extra spots for possible air leakage into the bin, adding to re-entrained dust getting to the filters. Experience has shown that the external mounting works well.

 

[Fingerpicker]

Rob,

Perhaps it is because I have a longer length of flex leading to my bin than is standard, but my dust bin fills just the opposite of what you describe. My bin consistently fills from the center with a column of shavings & dust and is at a lower level around the perimeter of the can/bin. If the chips build up into the flex enough to trip the bin sensor (mounted about 10" above the bin lid), all it takes is a light shake and all of the chips settle to withing about 3" of the lid which makes it very easy to remove the can for emptying.

My assumption is that the length of flex leading to the dust bin affects the manner in which the dust bin fills. You can see the flex in the attached photo and in the photos attached to my earlier reply to sevenex in this thread. In the attached photo, the trash can is not in place. With the can in place, the dust bin lid is just about even with the top of the filter clean-out box.

 

[jsbrow]

McRabbet Woodworks Bin Level Sensor – Works Great!

McRabbet Woodworks Bin Level Sensor – Works Great!

This looks like the best place for this post. Today is the first time I got use out of the McRabbet Woodworks Bin Level Sensor (MWBLS). I upgraded to a CV-1800 in August 2015 and in so doing I purchased the MWBLS. Rob was kind enough to answer my questions in a thorough and thoughtful way, allowing me to install the MWBLS as a last resort safety measure to protect the CV-1800 filters. It was installed when I set up the CV-1800 and wired to shut the cyclone off in a full bin event. In my build, I also included an illuminated dust collection chamber with a view port. The viewport allows me to look into the dust bin without having to remove lids or open doors.

I really doubted that the MWBLS would ever be needed or used. After all, with my setup, all I had to do was to look into the bin to determine whether it needed emptied. And this is how things went on my last two dust producing projects.

I started the day today at the jointer face jointing some boards. I had checked the bin a couple of days ago and made a mental note that I need to empty the bin. I then forgot all about it and the bin remained unemptied. And then it happened. The CV-1800 stopped, re-started, and then stopped. I looked at the CV-1800 and the strobe setting atop the MWBLS was flashing. Then I remembered my mental note. The MWBLS shut the machine down because the bin was full. There were no chips in the cyclone body and nothing made it to the filters. What a life saver. Without the MWBLS, I would now be cleaning out my filters rather than picking thorough a pile of lumber.

I highly recommend this add-on for any user of a dust collector; for me it paid for itself today! It not only works, but it works extremely well. – Thanks Rob!

 

[McRabbet]

John,

Thanks for the kind words -- it is always rewarding to hear from another satisfied user of my system. Ironically, I've recently been reading a thread on another woodworking forum about continued failures of the factory bin sensor system on several Oneida systems (I have several Oneida customers that have used my unit with success). I have not heard from any of my customers that my system failed to activate when their bins filled -- it seems to work every time!

Best wishes and please remember to work safely!

 

[PeterOlsson]

Anyone compared this one with the one Oneida has? I see everyone really happy here, but i wonder about pros and cons compared to one at half the price...

 

[jsbrow]

PeterOlsson,

I cannot speak directly to the Oneida bin level sensor performance. I have done no head to head comparison. Therefore, I can only provide limited comment that may guide your purchase, based on my understanding of the way the two systems work.

Based on my recollection from 2015 when I was looking into bin level sensors, I recall the Oneida sensor seemed to depend on light reflecting off debris that collected in the bin. If my understanding is correct then I presume the greater the intensity of the reflected light, the closer the bin would be to being full. At some point, the intensity of the reflected of light would be great enough to trip a relay and flash a warning or shut down the cyclone.

The McRabbet sensor depends on light normally passing through the lower section of the cyclone and when the light is blocked by debris, the sensor sends an alarm and can shut down the cyclone.

Both are based on sound principles, but in my mind, if I understand the workings of the two systems correctly, the Oneida system requires some calibration presumably done by the manufacturer. If improperly calibrated or the light reflecting properties of the debris differs from that of the standard used during calibration, the Oneida system could either be late or fail to detect a full dust bin or generate a false alarm. I cannot opine as to the whether this is an in-fact problem with the Oneida system.

The McRabbet system requires no calibration once the optimum light path is established when installing the sensor system. Either the light can pass through the lower section of the cyclone or it cannot. The simplicity and presumed reliability of the McRabbet design caused me to install the McRabbet sensor. However, as in my case, if the detector is located close to the cyclone body (as opposed to further away from the cyclone body such as at the dust-bin-end of a length the hose running from the cyclone to the dust bin), some debris can back up in the cyclone body and some of this debris sucked into the filters before the McRabbet sensor trips an alarm.

On one occasion, as I mentioned in an above post, the McRabbet sensor shut down the cyclone. Therefore, I am firmly convinced that the McRabbet bin level sensor functions properly and kept significant amounts of debris out of the filters. What I did not mention and which may be just as important is that after 3 years I have had no false alarms. Since I do not have the Oneida system, I cannot say whether it would have detected the full bin detected by the McRabbet sensor or whether the Oneida system produces false alarms.

 

[PeterOlsson]

Thanks jsbrown,
i been researcging user feedback and Oneida has had a few complaints on false alarms, too much cleaning required and even lack of good support responses from Oneida. Although im slightly skeptical on single user feedback, collectively they tell a story, in case of Oneida it is not all sunshine, and looks like half price give or take, but also you might just get what you pay for.
in case of the Mcrabbet solution, all feedback, is just like yours, all good. Havent found any real negative, except dollar impact on the wallet. A lot of people are saying build your own for a fraction, which could be an option for sure, i just dont have time to mess with it.
i just ordered me a Mcrabbet solution after all...