Venting outside and ducting - I am brand new to dust collection

Good morning:

That one is too tall. HOWEVER, just a bit down the same page is a 30 gallon that WILL work. It is 27" high (within the 28 inches shown in the CV picture of the CV1800). It is also labelled a 'transport drum' and looks a lot like the one you linked to. With a little creativivity I can see how I could put casters on it and still be 28". It is on the same page you linked to... just down farther in the page. This is excellent if it will work. I figured out how to get the picture here. I hope it is ok to do that. If not, perhaps a moderator could remove it.

Does this look like it will also work? If so I'll order it after work this afternoon... THANK YOU!
30 gallon drum.gif
 
Fiber Drums - I had also looked at these drums but they were all too tall for my application. Because they are all in that narrow 19"-ish diameter, getting shorter meant losing a lot of capacity. This is why I finally bit the bullet and bought the Oneida-Air drum. At 22" wide and only 23" tall, it gave me the greatest capacity and greatest positioning flexibility. When it was available through Penn Industries, this is the dust barrel that Cathy at Clear Vue recommended for height challenged installations.

Oneida-Air also sells a "blank" metal lid (here) so you can cut your own hole to fit your pipe size. Their pre-made list is cut for 7" because that is the dimension of their cyclones.

[I'm really really not trying to shill for Oneida!]
 
Last edited:
You made me think of Miracle on 34th street (the original one) where 'santa' sent the lady to Gimbels for a pair of skates better than the one Macy's sold. I have to believe the folks at Clear Vue see this in the spirit it was offered and they don't seem to offer barrels anyway. I appreciate the impartial recommendations and will make them as well, if I ever find anything everyone else has not already discovered.

I get the height thing, given how I got to this message. As for capacity, though, I believe the barrel just above is more than the one you mention from Oneida by a little bit IF I did my calculations correctly. I don't know how to convert cubic inches to gallons and I'm sure that would overestimate both of our curiosity's. I'm going to look again at Oneida just because it would make it even easier to add casters. I saw the lid there is $35ish. Not sure what the barrel is, but I'm not ALL about price if things make my life easier some. That free shipping thing is going to be hard to move past though.
 
Zoro.com is a great place to buy from with good customer service. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I purchased my PVC elbows and wyes from them and was very pleased with their pricing and service. Even a return I had to make was free shipping back to them. So, if the height of this barrel will work for you, it is certainly a good deal! In my case, I needed those several inches to make the installation work.
 
egbell,

Conversion factor: 1 cubic inch = 0.004329 U.S. liquid gallons.

If my arithmetic is correct…

Volume, cubic inches: 19” dia x 27 tall drum = 9.5 X 9.5 x 3.14 x 27 = 7650 cu inches

Volume U.S. liquid gallons: 7650 cu inches x .004329 gal/1 cu inch = 33 gal
 
I just ordered the barrel (30 gal) from Zoro. $57.88 + 3.41 tax and no shipping was too good to pass up. Thank you for the recommendation. That clears my bucket list.

I did have a question though that I have not thought to ask to this point. Probably moot now, but who knows...

If I were to want to use a plywood or MDF top, I have read about routing a groove and weatherstripping, but I cannot recall reading how you would attach this after that is done. I went back through the galleries for a bit and some of the topics but could not find that in the bit of time I spent looking. How do you attach the solid top? I see some people putting clear acrylic in these so you can see in the barrel (I assume). Even buying a barrel with a top, I may still have a reason or desire to make my own top... is there a best way to do this?

And do I need to put some kind of coating on this barrel to protect against humidity or some other mishap?
 
Ed,

Here is what I suggested in Post 29, above:
Smooth the edge and make a round top from 3/4" MDF with a groove router out to hold a flexible rubber weatherstripping gasket. Use a metal starter collar sealed with silicone caulk for the flex connection to the cyclone.Suction will hold the top tight, but a set of lid latches like these will ensure a tight fit.
The MDF top should be 3/4" thick and start with a square large enough to cover your bin by an inch or so. Find the center and drill a small hole to hold a nail or screw to use as a pivot for a compass. Make a circle cutting jib base for a router from 1/8 to 3/16" thick hardboard that will fit to your router base and is long enough to allow a router bit to cut a circle about 1/2" larger than your bin diameter with a nail through that hole in the center point. Cut the outside of the bin cover using a straight bit. Next, cut a groove large enough to hold some compressible weather stripping into the groove that is the diameter of your bin so that groove sits over the bin top edge. Turn the top over an use the same hole to center a metal starter collar, draw its inside diameter and cut out the hole with a smaller router circle jig or a saber saw. Next, attach the starter collar to the outside of the new bin top with plenty of silicone caulk and a few short sheet metal screws. Buy some toggle latches like my link an screw the clips around the perimeter of the top and through bolt the clamp bodies to the drum, using silicone sealant to be sure it is air proof. ]
 
Thanks Rob:

I totally missed the link to the latches in your post. The text color of the link is visible but not prominent. I am going to learn how to do that in this editor... link items that is, not change the color.

Thank you for that detail on creating the top. The only thing I wondered about was the stress on a fiber barrel of the through bolts. I worry about stuff that is probably silly, but I know I could deal with this with a washer or a strip of aluminum. I kind of like the idea of a thicker top... again, I worry about stuff that is probably silly.

Has anyone designed or seen some kind of rotating duct joint for PVC. I'm talking a home brew that I could make. I don't have a specific design in mind, just more a wild idea. I am thinking my planer could have a duct drop from the ceiling to the exhaust but it would be cool if I could swing it up out of the way AND use mostly solid pipe except for the last inches to allow connection. The reason I'm even thinking it is possible is because of what I've seen, and what some of you have shared, about blast gates and how they seal. That idea of the laminated formica comes to mind as the rotation point. I figure if I thought of it someone else certainly did too.

I also have been thinking more about hoisting my motor and the torsion box design you shared with me came back... particularly the ratcheting legs which might make an incremental lift possible and integral. This stuff is why I don't get much sleep.
 
Ed,

I agree that the links are not very clear. Just as an experiment, I'll try to do the link in larger and bold text. Just so you know how to enter a link, first switch to the Advanced Editor on this page (the letter A at the right of the window). Next, open a new tab with your browser and find what you want to link to; then copy the URL of the found item's page into the Windows cut/paste buffer with CTRL-C and return to your post in progress. Highlight the word(s) you want to use for the link with your mouse (like found at Amazon.com) and click on the Chain link at the middle right of the menu bar and a new window opens; click in the URL pane and press CTRL-V to paste the contents of the buffer into that window and click OK. The words you highlighted now change to underlined and go to the link that you pasted. In this post, I first altered the text with bold and increased the font size to 14 to make them more visible.

Hope this helps. By the way, there are lots of other features in that advanced editor menu -- I used the Quote mark button to embed that portion of post 29 into my post 47.

Rob
 
Rotating Joint (diy) - It's a neat idea to contemplate. I've seen some YouTube videos for 3-4" pipe, but not 6". All basically rely on sanding down the pipe so it can freely rotate in the fitting and none look to be airtight. But, it may be possible to use a double fitting with a nitrite rubber ring (Buna o-ring) seal in between them and lubricating the seal with Vaseline. It may require some time of housing to hold it together like a sandwich. Here's one of the videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omztymLxhJ8
 
Rob: Thanks for the technique of pasting links. I have already been using that advanced menu to increase my font size to 14, and to post that picture above. Had not yet figured out the linking yet, but I have SO many other things in mind to ask and share here that it is something I needed to learn. I want to learn easier ways to quote too. When I've done it so far, I just copied/pasted without using the menu at all.

Rushton: I looked at that link. That guy is pretty clever. I was thinking of two approaches.... one a surface to surface arrangement that would (hopefully) seal like (and as tight as) a blast gate. Alternately, something that rotated as an offset that closed/opened... something like a chamber in a revolver to open or close the gate... again relying on suction to keep it air tight when rotated up and out of the way. Another idea is kind of an extension on your suggestion and ideas of some of the others here about the barrel top... routing a shallow groove in a piece of pipe with a dremel or router bit and using an O-ring in it... much like what you see in a union. Lubricated if necessary. The female end of the joint could be expanded a little, again with a dremel, like the guy in the video link you posted. This has to be put way down on my radar, but it is an interesting (to me) project that would cut down even more the amount of flexible pipe I will have to use. I'll revisit it when I get to the collection connection at my planer, but that is low priority because I don't use it that much. Maybe someone else has the confluence of need and ingenuity and time and will take it on. I'll certainly be watching for that.

Finally, another question about the ducting having to do with grounding. I know there is a controversy about it and that Bill Pentz on his site said, effectively, that this had been refuted to his satisfaction, as I recall. However, I see it as a small thing and why gamble? I saw the idea (Jbrow?) of running lengths of conductive tape inside and outside the duct. I also saw a couple of people who ran screws of one type or other that extended just VERY SLIGHTLY into the inside of the pipe and then connecting the screws outside of the pipe with uninsulated wire. All said the screws were self-sealing as far as air leakage. I'm not raising this for the discussion on the need to do it. I know that will be here long after I'm not. I just figure why not if it is not that big of a job or expense. Having said that, can anyone weigh in on the idea of the screws that protrude a little into the interior. Is there something I'm not considering that the people who did this did in ignorance? Seems like a good idea but I don't know everything. I don't believe anyone suggested enough protrusion to obstruct or even influence the stuff whisking through the ducts. I don't mind a little extra work if the expense is negligible just for the added comfort of mind. My wife has read somewhere of spark-triggered dust explosions and she might not rant or nag, but it will always be a concern for her. I'm not accepting or refuting the need. I'm just looking for something that will put her at ease... something more tangible (to her) than an article or observation.
 
Hah! My electric box just arrived. I'm picking up the pipe and fittings after work today and I'll get the wire tomorrow. This is getting very real now!
 
egbell,

Grounding: Here is my understanding of static electricity and “grounding” PVC.

PVC cannot be grounded since PVC is not electrically conductive. Thus static charges build up on the pipe. If a path to ground is available, static charges near the ground can be dissipated but elsewhere static charges remain. When enough static build up exists, a static discharge can occur; some may be of low energy while others of a high energy. The higher energy discharges can offer enough energy to ignite an explosion.

The second and third requirements for an explosion are fuel and oxygen. Generally the ratio of dust to oxygen must be within a lower and upper range to trigger an explosion. While I do not know what this ratio is for wood dust, it seems to be such that it rarely causes an explosion in a home workshop; at least I am unaware of any.

I elected to mitigate static charge build up on the PVC for several reasons: 1) reduce the likelihood of an energetic discharge, 2) to reduce fine dust build-up on the outside of the pipes, 3) eliminate the occasional annoying static shock.

There are two approaches of which I am aware that can be used to reduce statistic discharges from PVC. The effectiveness in gathering surface static charges seems to depend on the amount of pipe in contact with the grounded conductive material.

The first approach is wrapping the PVC pipe with bare wire (usually copper) that is then terminated to ground. The closer the wrapped wire is as it encircles the pipe the greater its ability to collect static charge from the pipe. Some recommend or even have installed a wire inside the pipe.

The second approach is to install electrically foil tape on the pipe terminated to ground. I took the inside/outside foil tape approach. I chose to install foil tape inside and outside the pipe to increase the surface area where static surface charge could collect and be sent to ground. The two strips of 4” wide foil tape covered about 40% of the surface area of the 6” pipe.

My foil tape approach meets neither of your criteria. It was expensive for the 60 feet of pipe I installed. It was also time consuming, especially installing the tape inside the pipe. The cost would have been reduced by 50% and the effort greatly reduced if foil tape was installed only on the outside of the pipe.

Any material inside the pipe can increase static pressure and adversely affect the vortex inside the pipe by creating zones of turbulence. Therefore, I tried to avoid pipe penetrations including screw tips. I also doubt that screw tips inside a pipe would be very effective for overall static charge mitigation.

Here is an article that may be of interest entitled “Grounding PVC and Other Dust Collection Myths”.

http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/shop/articles_221.shtml
 
fwiw, I plan to follow jsbrow's example and use foil tape with my PVC pipes to reduce static build up (I hate getting zapped when the weather is cold and dry), but only plan to use 2" tape and only on one side of the pipe (inside as I assemble the duct work) but lapped up and outside the pipe at the ends to allow for foil-to-foil contact on the connections. Since I'll also tape the joints, I'm not concerned about the surface mounted tape creating an air gap in the joint. Would love to hear from anyone having a bad experience from taping inside the pipes. I do not plan to put screws through any of the pipe walls.

Rod and Denise Nikkel report good success in their shop in Alberta Canada by just taping the outside of their already installed pipe with 2" wide tape and covering tops of the screw connections and wire. Bill Pentz suggests inside the pipe. Jsbrow and done both inside and outside using 4" tape.
http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.../CV56.jpg.html
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/forum/forum/clearvue-cyclones/piping-and-dust-pickups/839-grounding?p=6126#post6126
 
Rushton,

I have had no problems from installing foil tape inside my duct work. It has been in place since installing the CV1800 2 years ago.
 
Good morning;

Jsbrow: I read the article to which you linked. I grasped bits of it. Some went totally over my head. I copied a couple paragraphs I considered pertinent, but not with the intention of posting/quoting them here. They would be totally out of context, even though I found them interesting. The one interesting idea he returned to at least twice was wrapping duct in aluminum foil. I'm not going to do that. I got enough from the article that I have decided I can do more for health and safety by redoubled efforts to lose weight, the benefits of which will follow me everywhere. (I don't think there is any current danger of explosion but with any luck discharges will decrease. My wife is good with that.)

Rushton: My basement is VERY humid in the summer. I am in the middle of a forest. I run a dehumidifier constantly most of the year and have to empty a 5 gallon bucket every two or three days. Not so much in the winter, but I guess static electricity is more of a problem in dry areas? I may be obsessing about something that I can put off until later. I always intended to tape the duct joints, though some of you have said that the joints are pretty air tight without that. The link you posted shows something I could do later with the tape also... outside, of course, not inside. I did wonder about the effect on the joint of tape inside, but you did just answer that too. (I'm thinking to myself even as I type this that it might not be THAT much work to tape the inside of the ducts. I'll explore the expense, but it is certainly cheaper and easier to do now than it would be later.)


I picked up my pipe and some of the fittings yesterday. Ironically, the supply house did not have the 18 45 degree elbows I wanted. I only got 4. Will get the rest next week, and I really forgot I'd need caps to close runs I cannot use until I get the tools modified.

I got a lesson in inertia and load securing too, I believe. I left the supply house, did a brisk sharp left and arrived at a gas station about 10 blocks away with three of the original six ten foot six inch pipes still in my truck. The problem then became how many pipes remained after a hurried retracing of my path from the gas station. I know that sounds uncomfortably like a word problem. Fortunately, most of the people in the forest area where I live are honest. I found the three pipes neatly stacked in a yard at the first turn. No way to thank someone. I love where I live. I don't believe I'll need more pipe, but I may be back with questions on properly securing a load of ten foot pipe in a 7ish foot truck bed (gate down) should I need to do that.

6 inch ductwork, like a large screen television, is a lot bigger when you get it home. I'll be picking up the wire later today and perhaps routing it tomorrow. Small steps!

And thank you all again who have been replying. I AM taking this all in and it is helping a lot.
 
My stuff is on the fed ex truck and scheduled for delivery today. I am going to home Depot this weekend (have to hang around today to wait for Fed Ex) for wire (10/2) and a circuit breaker, duct flange, caulk, and some other stuff. Here is a question I did not even consider necessary until I read some more today in the other topics. The MDF in the CV web page pictures is blue. I had presumed this was the case at delivery time but it seems not to be.

Should I paint these parts? I presume, if I should, that I should not use latex paint. Is this all correct?
 
My Clear Vue CV1800 arrived in its blue paint on all the MDF parts. At one time, Clear Vue did not paint the MDF. I don't know when painting it started. Nonetheless, sealing the MDF with some sort of sealer (shellac, poly, paint) is a good idea.
 
I would recommend painting it. I did mine with Forest Green Rustoleum 10 years ago because I was installing it in my crawl space below my basement shop and there was a potential of some dampness -- fortunately, not a problem and it still looks good.
 
Back
Top